Interesting Article on "Cool" vs Functional

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Interesting Article on "Cool" vs Functional

Postby 0l4fderstout » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:29 pm

As someone who jumped to an "entry level" bike from a douchecanoe, I wanted something that I could take damn near anywhere and not exhaust myself riding. (Also I have no *&(^ing clue how 999 CC is an entry level bike...)

Honestly, it was the best decision I have made since picking up a helmet and riding.

https://www.rideapart.com/articles/3028 ... ng-harley/

They aren't riding to be cool, they just want to beat the traffic!
By now we are all tired of hearing about the latest sacred Boomer cow that Millennials are slaughtering, but last week's UBS report actually has good news for the motorcycle industry. The financial services company conducted a survey of more than 2,000 people between the are of 21 and 34 in an attempt to figure out why Harley-Davidson stock has fallen 32% in the past 12 months. While their findings are bad news for big expensive cruisers and touring bikes, they are actually good for other parts of the industry. Unlike older buyers who considered a bike "as a hobby" or because "motorcycles are cool" Millennial responders want them for "ease of transportation."
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Re: Interesting Article on "Cool" vs Functional

Postby Jaeger » Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:42 am

If you go to Europe (or pretty much anywhere else) it's obvious that motorbikes are transportation, not toys. That's why scooters are so goddamn popular! They're effective! Whats' not to like? Fuel-efficient, reliable, maneuverable, easy to park...

Yes, I think we (Americans) are finally catching up with the rest of the world. Granted, we're slightly different given the distances most 'Murkins drive/ride compared to many other countries, but the sheer practicality of 2-wheeled transportation is obvious. Sure, it's cold and wet sometimes, but... so? Plan and dress accordingly. It's still cheaper than a car.

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Re: Interesting Article on "Cool" vs Functional

Postby 0l4fderstout » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:19 am

Thats was my rationale in DC, and it's still how I roll here in MI when it's not below 26 degrees F (or wet below 40 degrees)
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Re: Interesting Article on "Cool" vs Functional

Postby xtian » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:44 pm

sorry but unless you are comparing a standard giant US car with a mid size UJM bike, the bike is never cheaper here. taxes, maintenance, insurance, tyres, or even gas consumption... gear.. .not even close.
I'm not really from around here.
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Re: Interesting Article on "Cool" vs Functional

Postby 0l4fderstout » Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:04 am

It seems to be viable in India, (of course there's the royal enfields, and a host of other small displacement bikes..) The Jawas are sold out well into the year's end.

https://www.rideapart.com/articles/3031 ... torcycles/

Jawa motorcycles, originally a Czech brand now being produced in India, has recently launched two motorcycles: the Jawa and the Jawa 42. Classic Legends Private Limited (CLPL), the company producing Jawa motorcycles, is a subsidiary of Mahindra and Mahindra, a multinational manufacturing corporation headquartered in Mumbai. It is one of the largest vehicle manufacturers in India. In 2016 it gained permission to resurrect the Jawa name, and CLPL is set to begin production any minute. It set up an online booking system for pre-ordering the bike and then had to take it down due to demand. The bikes, none of which had even rolled off the production line yet, sold out in just a bit over a month, and the wait time is now until September of this year.


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Re: Interesting Article on "Cool" vs Functional

Postby Jaeger » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:53 am

xtian wrote:sorry but unless you are comparing a standard giant US car with a mid size UJM bike, the bike is never cheaper here. taxes, maintenance, insurance, tyres, or even gas consumption... gear.. .not even close.


Wha? Seriously?

Well, previously when I say "motorbike" I'm also including scooters 'cause, well, they're the most efficient. Factor those in and I'm pretty sure they'll still be cheaper.

Bikes aren't cheap here either, though they're cheaper than cars. For one, insurance is a lot less because you can't cause as much damage with a bike.

I simply cannot imagine that on average fuel efficiency on a bike is also better. Again, remember, factor in 50cc and 125cc scooters.

What may not be clear from that side of the pond is how few bikes there are on the road here, at least compared to everywhere else I've ever traveled. It's only in the past few years that there's been an increase in small-displacement bikes that are more practical rather than either a huge-ass Harley or a suicide-machine sportbike.

Basically, 'Murkins are starting to figure it out. :mrgreen:

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Re: Interesting Article on "Cool" vs Functional

Postby xtian » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:38 pm

ah, ok. scooters. ok.
still, the best selling bikes here are Gs, RTs and K16. we're not india or thailand. Still a luxury product.
I consider a safety issue to be able to outrun a car in most situations.
I just spent the last few days chasing a new car for my girlfriend and was in shock
Tyres, about the same price, every 6000 to 12000km for a bike, every 60.000 for a car (? never kept a car long enough to know)
insurance, about 400€ for a regular car, 800€ for my 1200 tiger
taxes for a new vehicle, 60€ for a 100hp 1.5L car, 900€ for my tiger !
maintenance, every two year / 30.000 km for a new car, every 12 to 16.000 km for a bike, with intermediate maintenance = X2, with semi synthetic oil V/s cheap margarine for you car
chain and sprockets... gear, helmet V/s letting a car rot in the street.
and still burning around 45 mpg

Scooters of course out of this equation, but also limited to an urban use.
I'm not really from around here.
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Re: Interesting Article on "Cool" vs Functional

Postby 0l4fderstout » Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:48 pm

well, and Belgium has actual winter. You get down by Jaeger in NoVA and I was riding 10-11 months a year, and my commute was made easier because I could use the High Occupancy lanes.
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Re: Interesting Article on "Cool" vs Functional

Postby Jaeger » Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:32 pm

xtian wrote:ah, ok. scooters. ok.
still, the best selling bikes here are Gs, RTs and K16. we're not india or thailand. Still a luxury product.
I consider a safety issue to be able to outrun a car in most situations.
I just spent the last few days chasing a new car for my girlfriend and was in shock
Tyres, about the same price, every 6000 to 12000km for a bike, every 60.000 for a car (? never kept a car long enough to know)
insurance, about 400€ for a regular car, 800€ for my 1200 tiger
taxes for a new vehicle, 60€ for a 100hp 1.5L car, 900€ for my tiger !
maintenance, every two year / 30.000 km for a new car, every 12 to 16.000 km for a bike, with intermediate maintenance = X2, with semi synthetic oil V/s cheap margarine for you car
chain and sprockets... gear, helmet V/s letting a car rot in the street.
and still burning around 45 mpg

Scooters of course out of this equation, but also limited to an urban use.


First, why in the ever-loving fuck would a bike be more expensive to insure? That's INSANE. You cannot possibly do more damage with a bike than with even a small cage. Likewise, the taxes? WTF? That's ludicrous!

I'll otherwise agree that bikes aren't that much more fuel efficient compared to super-efficient cars you Eurotrash can get (we can't).

And yes, I noticed there are way more scooters around the cities than full-size bikes -- now I know why. Fuck me! Maybe that's why the Limeys are trying to get out of Eurozone! ;)

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Re: Interesting Article on "Cool" vs Functional

Postby 0l4fderstout » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:59 am

Jaeger wrote:First, why in the ever-loving fuck would a bike be more expensive to insure? That's INSANE. You cannot possibly do more damage with a bike than with even a small cage. Likewise, the taxes? WTF? That's ludicrous!



My thought was healthcare related, since one thing our auto/bike insurances do here is push medical costs off onto your health insurance if you have it, before assuming any of the cost.
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Re: Interesting Article on "Cool" vs Functional

Postby Jaeger » Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:43 am

0l4fderstout wrote:My thought was healthcare related, since one thing our auto/bike insurances do here is push medical costs off onto your health insurance if you have it, before assuming any of the cost.


That's a really good point. They're going to need to account for socialized healthcare, and I don't think anybody would disagree that you're much more likely to get mangled on a bike. :shock:

It still doesn't make sense for the bike to be more expensive, though. It's by its nature more fuel hungry (more weight), it's harder to park, takes up more space in a crowded city, requires more metal to make...

I suppose if the scooters are still cheap and full-sized motorcycles are expensive it'd make some sense. They'll try to discourage the use of suicide machines and encourage practical urban transportation. Nobody needs a 'Busa, even on the autobahn (though I wager it'd be a helluva lot of fun).

I guess how would an R1 (or Gixxer, or whatever) compare against a new Porche or some reasonable Japanese sports car?

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Re: Interesting Article on "Cool" vs Functional

Postby xtian » Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:46 am

all of the above. yes, I suppose it's about health care in the balance (numbers show that we have far less accidents, but of course they are more serious), and yes, the bikes that we fancy are after all high performance luxury machines, to be compared with a range rover or a lamborghini, unlike cheap scooters. I still have to see an official media envisioning scooters as a valid alternative, they only consider cars, public transports, and bicycles. it also says something about how the work on the road infrastructures. City centers will not consider motorcycles as an exception so they have to follow the same rules as cars, unlike London, where AFAIN, the entry of the city is free for motorised two wheelers. We're still sort of outcasts. :)
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Re: Interesting Article on "Cool" vs Functional

Postby jae » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:38 am

Jaeger wrote:I guess how would an R1 (or Gixxer, or whatever) compare against a new Porche or some reasonable Japanese sports car?

--Jaeger

I'm not sure in what regard you're looking for comparison, and I can't speak for an R1, or anything regarding europe for that matter, but...

my 2006 GSXR 600, for which I paid $1,500, costs me more per year to insure with basic minimum limit liability/theft and $1,000 deductible than my 2001 BMW 330 with 100k/300k comprehensive limits and $250 deductible (I have multi-vehicle discounts on each policy as well, FWIW). Fuel economy on the GSXR seems to be a steady 32-35 mpg (maybe more in pure highway use at rational speed) vs. consistent 23-25 mpg in the BMW. That doesn't factor in the rear tire on the GSXR being the same price as the BMW and only lasting about 6k miles at most. oil changes work out about the same, as I run oil a lot longer in the BMW, but 7 qts. of synthetic 0-40 usually negates the longer interval change. Both vehicles have about the same market value right now, so registration taxes work out roughly the same.

Granted, every other bike I own (including the Triumph 1050 Sprint) gets much better fuel economy and is MUCH cheaper to insure
There, I said it.
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Re: Interesting Article on "Cool" vs Functional

Postby Aggroton » Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:06 pm

Millennials are fucking dorks. What would they know.
thats a sweet bike.
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Re: Interesting Article on "Cool" vs Functional

Postby 0l4fderstout » Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:17 am

the earliest Millenials are into their 30's. They're just starting to have some disposable income, and outnumber GenX by a fair portion. But to bring this around to the article and thread in general, most Millenials living in metro regions like DC, Chicago, Baltimore, etc. want to have transportation that isn't expensive to operate or maintain, and that they don't have to pay huge amounts to park. Manufacturers that cut to that demographic are going to do well in the future.
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Re: Interesting Article on "Cool" vs Functional

Postby Dr Ratbagg » Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:38 am

Aggroton wrote:Millennials are fucking dorks. What would they know.

Apparently more than someone who blatantly dumps on an entire generation.
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Re: Interesting Article on "Cool" vs Functional

Postby Aggroton » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:00 pm

Dr Ratbagg wrote:
Aggroton wrote:Millennials are fucking dorks. What would they know.

Apparently more than someone who blatantly dumps on an entire generation.



Um....Depending on what chart you are looking at...I am a Millennial.

But thanks for dumping on my joke...
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