TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

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TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby Jaeger » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:18 am

So I got to test ride one of these on Saturday:

Image

I'm in love. Totally in love.

Aside from the aesthetics (which I like), the first thing I noticed dry-humping it in the showroom is that she feels super light. She's 540lbs (244 kilos) dry but feels a lot lighter, more like 300lbs. Very narrow. Saddle is firm but wide. Upright seating with a comfortable reach to the controls (see below).

Front fork is a bit soft but I'm accustomed to the Speedy's upgraded springs and heavier oil. Easily fixed (if needed after experimentation).

Handlebars are a bit too far back and in (buckhorn-ish) for my taste, but that's fixable too and it's still quite comfortable as-is, just didn't like the hand/wrist position.

But that engine... holy fuck. :shock:

They're claiming 100hp out of the box, though some of the reviews I've read make it more in the 90s. I didn't push her very hard (sedate test ride led by an old man on a full-dresser Chief) but enough to see that there is a LOT of ass in there.

I didn't get above 60mph on the test ride. I never got to the sixth sprocket. Barely touched fifth and she happily lugged along like that. Imagine if a Harley fucked an SV650 or an Aprilia -- kind've like that.

The guy told me redline is more like 11k. :shock:

We loped around very comfortably in the low end. Power is smooth, engine vibration is almost nonexistent (not quite the Speed Triple but close). Clutch is light compared to a Harley but more "agricultural" compared to my Triumph or a Japanese bike.

The seating is similar to the Speedy but the feet aren't quite as far forward and I wasn't hunched over as much. The wheelbase feels approximately the same (+/- a hair). Corners very solidly. Comfy ride.

If I could magically turn the Speedy into this I would do it in an instant. Instead I'm going to have to wait for a bit (not like I have much time to ride anyway).

Also upon reading some of the scuttlebutt I gather that Polaris/Indian are considering "other platforms" for that engine. Anybody else want to see 'em put this mill into something like a Buell?

--Jaeger
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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby Pattio » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:28 am

Jaeger wrote:So I got to test ride one of these on Saturday:




Also upon reading some of the scuttlebutt I gather that Polaris/Indian are considering "other platforms" for that engine. Anybody else want to see 'em put this mill into something like a Buell?

--Jaeger


Yep, count me among those hoping that someone, somewhere, thinks there is a market for an American motorcycle that can go around corners and does not start, first and foremost, with the gynecaelogical-exam riding position. So far Polaris considers this heresy and I understand that, but a man can dream.
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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby goose » Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:34 am

The mill in that bike is capable of some extraordinary and reliably delivered hp. My friend Todd is part of the Polaris skunkworks . . . . the scout is very very good and it's going to be even better very soon. While I'm not a cruiser guy, I'd totally own this bike. Hits all the right buttons for me and I'd have Todd "massage" the motor and suspension for me. Like Pattio, I too am glad that there is real competition for the HD. It will make both companies better. While I like Victory, I just feel the Indian has a better feel for the pulse of that market segment. The Victory line up seemed too out of step (though I love the one that is a huge bagger with the Deco design qualities) with the customer base. I just want to grab one of those designers and say "here, here's a picture of a Crocker, that is what you should be aiming for and stop watching American Chopper". What was that model? the gambler or vegas or something . . . . it was like a hodgepodge of design failure that resembled Homer Simpson's car design. That failure cast a long shadow of the great motor and build quality that the Victory could have been. The marketing guys swear that the bike "surveyed" really well with the target market . . . . they could hardly give it away.

With the Indian, I think they got a whole lot closer. My .02
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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby AZRider » Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:17 pm

Victory Vision
Image
Not my style but I love that they built it.

As I posted elsewhere, I think the Scout is great and would probably be a better 1100 cc v-twin cruiser than my 1100 Shadow. With a bit of modification it would probably be a better 1100cc v-twin touring bagger than my 1100cc Moto Guzzi California. But I can't afford to buy one because I sank all my money into building an 1100cc v-twin cafe racer. If I had the money and a bigger garage, I probably could use another 1100cc v-twin. I might even decide that I need a Scout more than I need an XR1200.
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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby AZRider » Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:19 pm

Goose, is your friend Todd the Guzzi guru Eagan?
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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby red » Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:50 am

Pattio wrote:
Jaeger wrote:So I got to test ride one of these on Saturday:




Also upon reading some of the scuttlebutt I gather that Polaris/Indian are considering "other platforms" for that engine. Anybody else want to see 'em put this mill into something like a Buell?

--Jaeger


Yep, count me among those hoping that someone, somewhere, thinks there is a market for an American motorcycle that can go around corners and does not start, first and foremost, with the gynecaelogical-exam riding position. So far Polaris considers this heresy and I understand that, but a man can dream.



Same here. I'm waiting to see what comes out of EBR 2.0 but it would great to see other American made bikes that don't require you to make a tough guy face when you ride them.
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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby Jaeger » Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:51 am

red wrote:... it would great to see other American made bikes that don't require you to make a tough guy face when you ride them.


Image

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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby Jaeger » Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:45 pm

Iiiiinteresting:

Image

MO.com wrote:Victory announced it will premiere a brand new motorcycle at EICMA on Nov. 16. A motorcycle manufacturer debuting a new model at the Milan show isn’t typically surprising, but we can’t remember the last time, if at all, that Victory revealed a new model in Europe first instead of the U.S.

A “save the date” email sent out by Victory reads: “Victory Motorcycles has been showcasing American Muscle throughout its product line and in racing. Our pathway to the latest evolution of the brand will be revealed to the media in Hall 13.”

The email also included the image shown at top of this post. The picture appears to be of the engine used in Victory’s Project 156 prototype that raced at Pikes Peak. In fact, you can even see the disconnected coupler on the right just like in one of the Project 156 images released back in June (see below). The powerplant is liquid-cooled V-Twin engine based on the one used in the Indian Scout.

The new model will be part of Victory’s new performance-focused direction which Kevin Duke wrote about in an editorial in August.

Looking through Polaris’ trademark filings, the name Octane, first filed with the USPTO in September 2012, stands out as a likely name for a new performance-focused Victory model. We’ll find out more in the weeks ahead leading up to the 2015 EICMA show.


Let's see what they do.

--Jaeger

EDIT: Link: http://blog.motorcycle.com/2015/10/16/m ... -at-eicma/
Last edited by Jaeger on Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby Bigshankhank » Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:54 pm

Jaeger wrote:
Let's see what they do.

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I shall work up a semi chub in anticipation...
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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby Rench » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:26 pm

Cause that's what I need, another excuse to mothball the sportie indefinitely... :mrgreen:

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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby Jaeger » Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:27 pm

Bigshankhank wrote:
Jaeger wrote:
Let's see what they do.

--Jaeger


I shall work up a semi chub in anticipation...


Image

--Jaeger
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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby red » Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:32 pm

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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby Pattio » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:01 pm

Pleeze pleeze pleeze, bike that can corner, not feet-forward, pleeeeeze
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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby 0l4fderstout » Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:41 am

ffffff. With HD cutting jobs to focus on marketing and improvements (news flash HD, your market is saturated and the level of maintenance is onerous even if they do chug along like easy boys atop tractors, (Sorry feeling a bit ranty after a nine hour ride yesterday and then seeing a news release about the 250 job cut)) instead of innovating and getting reliability up, imma probably bite on one of these guys next.
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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby MoraleHazard » Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:57 am

CNBC had a segment on HD's falling stock price and these analysts are all scratching their heads wondering why. I can tell you why. Like others in this thread, I want an American bike with no forward footpegs and can corner. It's that simple.

As for the scout, I'm glad to hear it's getting good reviews. I've never jived to Indian aesthetics, but that's just my opinion.
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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby red » Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:14 am

I agree with Pattio and MH, standard position, v-twin power plant and modern suspension/brakes. Something along the lines of the Duc Scambler base model.
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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby Rench » Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:22 am

The problem is they did make them. But the company didn't buy in. They spent 50 years calling the Sportster a "girls bike" until they made it a mini-Dyna (mostly correctable with surgery :mrgreen: ), then Buell. I can't tell you how many times I walked into HD and as soon as you'd ask about Buell, they would literally point to a corner way off to the side or back, where the lights were literally flickering or failing, and you could cycle the ignition on the 2 or 3 sitting there, and noone would talk to you. If you tracked a sales guy down they'd shrug and say they don't know much, so-and-so is off today. But if you even glanced at ANY HD model, you'd have 3 sales guys humping your legs and the general manager would be pouring you a beer.

They've fucked themselves. Time and time again. I'd hate to actually see them die, but if they don't get knocked down right off the fucking pegboard, they're just going to continue bloating and rotting. And embarrassing the hell out of their remaining customer base (which its safe to say doesn't even include me anymore). To quote Bane, victory has defeated them, and not the company. Yet.

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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby 0l4fderstout » Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:51 am

@Rench, aint that the truth. Getting asked at a dealership why i bought a girl's bike (my first was an 03 883, and a fun ride, except on vastly long trips, which I am prone to) really kind of pissed me off. I'm riding a Road king now, mostly because of the utility of the bags and the carrying capacity for endurance rides, but staying standard position and having a heavy duty suspension
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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby Pattio » Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:57 am

red wrote:I agree with Pattio and MH, standard position, v-twin power plant and modern suspension/brakes. Something along the lines of the Duc Scambler base model.


Oh yes. If the Scout was more like the Scrambler that would be so dreamy.
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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby Jaeger » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:55 am

Pattio wrote:
red wrote:I agree with Pattio and MH, standard position, v-twin power plant and modern suspension/brakes. Something along the lines of the Duc Scambler base model.

Oh yes. If the Scout was more like the Scrambler that would be so dreamy.


There's obviously a hole in the market for it, and I can tell you that engine is fuckin' AWESOME. They'd be fools not to put it in something with neutral foot controls.

Image

Also note that the current Scout package is only 540lbs. Cycleworld says the engine alone is only 200-- how's that line up against a typical ADV bike? That's putting out close to 100hp with a very usable torque curve from idle up to redline?

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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby Pattio » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:26 am

What saddens me about thinking about this ('this' being a hypothetical American scout-scrambler-standard-that-can-corner thingy) is that you know the engineers ride, you know they have thought about this, and you know that big companies like Polaris conduct market research before they make decisions. Therefore, there is probably a stack of very carefully conducted research which proves that what I want would be a sales failure.
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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby Jaeger » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:42 am

Pattio wrote:What saddens me about thinking about this ... there is probably a stack of very carefully conducted research which proves that what I want would be a sales failure.


I dunno, man. Consider that the motorcycle industry is finally wising up a little bit about the small-bore bikes that we've been howling about for years: to wit, the KTM Duke 390, the CBR300, the Yammy R3... eventually the manufacturers will come to the correct conclusion -- after exhausting all other possibilities. :)

It's so painfully obvious that America is getting its ass kicked in the motorcycle department. We let the Japanese and the Europeans take over the performance bike market in the '70s and '80s. Now that the Boomers are finally getting the fuck out of the way, there is very obviously a market more upright or standard bikes. Triumph has presumably made a fuckload of money selling Bonnevilles and variants that're pulling dollars away from both Harley (consumers don't all want piggish cruisers) and the superbike market (consumers don't all want a 200mph widowmaker).

They've sunk enough money into R&D on that engine, they gotta do something interesting with it.

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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby Pattio » Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:15 pm

I'll never give up hope. After all, dreamin' is free. I'm just being realistic about the idea that the reason the bike I want is not available is not because nobody thought of it.

I think the sting of that is particularly sharp with the Scout because Polaris/Indian already took the slightly transgressive step of making a motor without vestigial simulated patriotic cooling fins, and did such a damn good job engineering a useful, enjoyable power band out of a regular-ish displacement.

In the scheme of things, I suspect that the truly transgressive job of making an American bike that corners and has no flag-holder accessory will go to Victory. JMO.
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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby xtian » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:30 pm

Not that my opinion is any valuable but it's not going to happen. Why ? because R3, TKM390, smaller ninja's are not standard bikes. They are very small and light premium leisure products as much as bigger ninja's and cruisers. I know we have people here with enough determination to turn a 390 into a tourer, but haven't other done the same with sportsters.
Furthermore, you don't really want a standard bike. They're horrendous. A Honda NC700 IS a standard bike, therefore it's not sold on US market. What you really want is something that looks as good as a cruiser, corners as a sportbike, with luggage and passenger possibilities of a GT, and fuel efficiency of a mopped. I know, I want that too. (I kind of had it with the CBF, except it looked so bad it gave me confidence issues, but then again it wasn't sold in the US either) But it's impossible. Not going to happen.
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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby wyckedsin » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:41 pm

Pattio wrote:Pleeze pleeze pleeze, bike that can corner, not feet-forward, pleeeeeze


Harley did that with the SportRod. Sadly, a large number of them went Unsold and ended up being bought back by HD from the dealers and destroyed. The following years, you could order the SportRod footpegs. Again, response was underwhelming so when the Nightrod/MuscleRod series came out, the Factory Sport pegs were not made, and no provisions were made to the frame.

I dunno, man. Consider that the motorcycle industry is finally wising up a little bit about the small-bore bikes that we've been howling about for years: to wit, the KTM Duke 390, the CBR300, the Yammy R3... eventually the manufacturers will come to the correct conclusion -- after exhausting all other possibilities. :)


In truth the manufacturers have never stopped making those style bikes, they finally started importing them into the US again.
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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby Pattio » Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:10 am

wyckedsin wrote:
Pattio wrote:Pleeze pleeze pleeze, bike that can corner, not feet-forward, pleeeeeze


Harley did that with the SportRod. Sadly, a large number of them went Unsold and ended up being bought back by HD from the dealers and destroyed. The following years, you could order the SportRod footpegs. Again, response was underwhelming so when the Nightrod/MuscleRod series came out, the Factory Sport pegs were not made, and no provisions were made to the frame.
.


A six hundred pound bike with a low seat and raked out forks is most emphatically not what I was talking about. As we all know here, HDs brand identity and, very importantly, acolyte sales force, are proven incompatible with this concept. If their engineers all slipped in the tub and woke up eager to build a sport bike, the dealers would push the bike to the back of the room under the flickering light fixture. It's just not their thing. The imaginary American bike that can corner that I'm wishing for is not a previously unavailable grouping of controls on one of HDs existing platforms. It very well might be a new grouping of controls on this Scout platform, though.

Xian makes an excellent point about standards, though- in their standard-ness they tend to lack the style, flair, and sex appeal that niche bikes have. When I say 'standard' what am probably wishing for is more 'naked sport bike' than 'bland tool'. I bet we've all had the experience of looking at our motorcycle when it's been largely stripped down for some repair and thinking 'it looks bad ass like this. I wish I could ride it like this'. I'm pretty sure that's how my Speed Triple came to be, there was a Daytona on a lift somewhere with the bodywork not fitted and someone said 'let's paint this gloss black and send it out'.
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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby red » Thu Oct 22, 2015 3:39 am

Pattio wrote: I bet we've all had the experience of looking at our motorcycle when it's been largely stripped down for some repair and thinking 'it looks bad ass like this. I wish I could ride it like this'. I'm pretty sure that's how my Speed Triple came to be, there was a Daytona on a lift somewhere with the bodywork not fitted and someone said 'let's paint this gloss black and send it out'.


That's how I got the idea to strip down my XJ. Had the fairing off and thought, "Damn, it looks much better now!".
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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby red » Thu Oct 22, 2015 3:41 am

xtian wrote: A Honda NC700 IS a standard bike, therefore it's not sold on US market.


We have the NC700X, which despite the "Adventure" label thrown on it, it's pretty much a standard. I rode the one my step-father used as an engine donor for a project and I thought it was very "meh". Which is pretty much what I expected. But for a day in day out commuter, it would be a good bike, I just prefer more "character" in my bikes.
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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby xtian » Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:13 am

red wrote:
xtian wrote: A Honda NC700 IS a standard bike, therefore it's not sold on US market.


We have the NC700X, which despite the "Adventure" label thrown on it, it's pretty much a standard. I rode the one my step-father used as an engine donor for a project and I thought it was very "meh". Which is pretty much what I expected. But for a day in day out commuter, it would be a good bike, I just prefer more "character" in my bikes.


My mistake, I looked into the honda US website but did not look for the NC into the adventure list as I too considered it more a standard.
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Re: TEST RIDE: INDIAN SCOUT!

Postby jae » Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:56 am

red wrote: A Honda NC700 ... it would be a good bike, I just prefer more "character" in my bikes.


I say with absolutely no facetiousness, I've sold more than one perfectly reliable Honda (cars) in favor of something much less reliable simply because I couldn't stand the bore of the Honda. Sure, it's nice to know that your mode of daily transportation is going to start in the morning every time, but I still tend to favor the more viscerally appealing experience over reliability. This is the main reason that my two main bikes are 28 years old and British (respectively). Each has failed to start on me within the last week as expected, but each has some "character" that keeps me wanting to fix whatever's wrong and keep the bike regardless of how much time or comfort could be saved/gained from simply trading them both in on a Honda NC700, but I just can't bring myself to do it. I keep trying to talk a riding buddy (who has convinced himself the NC700 will be the perfect bike for him) out of getting one as he will be bored with it, but he protests with the spec sheet and Honda reliability. To each his own, I suppose.

As for the Scout, the gyno-table seating position is one of the biggest things I hate about cruisers, though I love the appearance of their original packaging. If they would drop that engine into a more "standard" style frame that was easily modified either toward sport or comfort (I'm thinking like the early CB's), I'd have to seriously try to talk myself out of one.
There, I said it.
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