Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion thread

The place to come if you've been with us for years or it's your first time here. General yakking about anything motorcycle related. Think of it as the internet coffeehouse for the UTMC.

Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby DerGolgo » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:06 am

Pattio wrote:DG please take down your not-the-front-page thing now.


It's coming down as soon as Aggro has taken down the Instagram and the Magazine thing.
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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby Pattio » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:18 pm

I'm working on how to inject some creativity into this. Maybe I can talk Aggro into renaming the virtual club the Grimy Astronauts or the Nukey Pavers, something we as a group will understand as an inside joke without feeling that it 'leads to us' in any of the negative ways.
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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby Pattio » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:19 pm

Man I wish Beemer Dan were still active with us. Dude loved video games. Hell, I wish I could ride virtual motorcycles in a virtual world he designed for us.
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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby rolly » Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:10 am

Seriously DG, that’s pretty fucking douchtacular. And frankly incorrect and intentionally misleading. Take that fucking shit down.
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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby DerGolgo » Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:29 am

rolly wrote:Seriously DG, that’s pretty fucking douchtacular. And frankly incorrect and intentionally misleading. Take that fucking shit down.


I have removed unnecessary text.
The rest will come down when that Instagram and that "Sleazy Rider's Mag" are down.

I did not join this place to be associated with 1% crap.
Even if it's only "in a game". It's not. Neither that Instagram, nor that "magazine", are in a game.

I wrote that shit when I was under the impression we had been ripped off by a stranger, so put a sock in that "intentionally misleading" bull. How should I have known one of us had published all of that? Because nobody in the know had bothered to tell the rest of the community?

What remains up is the explanation that this place isn't 1%. And is not coming down until the Instagram or that "magazine" are down. If that offends anyone, I don't quite frankly care.
As I type this, that shit is still up, I just checked.
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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby Pattio » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:06 am

I personally believe that, as anarchic and dis-organized as the UTMC is, the concept that it is absolutely not a 1% outlaw motorcycle club is important and central.

If there's a video game that makes it possible to organize as a group and ride virtual motorcycles in a virtual world, I think its natural to think about what it would mean for the UTMC to be in that world.

If the game designers decide to call that gameplay "1% biker gameplay mode" I acknowledge that that is problematic for a virtual motorcycle club that is adamant about not being a 1% outlaw motorcycle club.

I also don't like killing chickens in Minecraft but I need the feathers to make arrows because I need the arrows to take out skeletons because melee tactics just won't cut it against skeletons and I have to work with that.

That's right. I kill chickens.
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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby DerGolgo » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:15 am

Other killers of chickens don't, however, play chicken-killing together in minecraft or would get the idea that you'd be a chicken killer in real life, also.
People wouldn't browse Instagram or some online magazine and find Pattio being advertised as a chicken killer.
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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby DerGolgo » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:18 am

If you were a member of a vegan club, do you think your fellow vegans might object if they saw the name and artwork of their club presented with a "We kill chickens! We follow the rules of chicken killers!" caption?
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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby xtian » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:38 am

DerGolgo wrote:If you were a member of a vegan club, do you think your fellow vegans might object if they saw the name and artwork of their club presented with a "We kill chickens! We follow the rules of chicken killers!" caption?

That would be as totally absurd as, let's say, create an internet page of people that are not terrorists, nor a club, let alone a cult, and call it... you know... :mrgreen:
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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby Pattio » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:40 am

I'd like to think that my fellow vegans could work it out. Some would say dude, why would you play a chicken killing game, killing is abhorrent. Others might say dude, why would you waste your time playing games, we need to tend our garden and your killing our solar array with your computer's power draw. Others still might say dude, just don't kill the llamas or polar bears, they are neutral and don't drop any craftable resources. One guy might just say duuuuude but thats all he says because he's stoned all the time anyway. Maybe at least one person might say so, wait, you can build whatever you want in Minecraft?
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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby DerGolgo » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:53 am

xtian wrote:
DerGolgo wrote:If you were a member of a vegan club, do you think your fellow vegans might object if they saw the name and artwork of their club presented with a "We kill chickens! We follow the rules of chicken killers!" caption?

That would be as totally absurd as, let's say, create an internet page of people that are not terrorists, nor a club, let alone a cult, and call it... you know... :mrgreen:

That had already been addressed. This place had had it's name when all but the very first had joined up. We all saw "Terrorist" and thought "yap, fine". We also all saw "not 1%", or rather the more elegant way in which Dan had phrased it. And thought "yap, that's me".


Pattio wrote:I'd like to think that my fellow vegans could work it out. Some would say dude, why would you play a chicken killing game, killing is abhorrent. Others might say dude, why would you waste your time playing games, we need to tend our garden and your killing our solar array with your computer's power draw. Others still might say dude, just don't kill the llamas or polar bears, they are neutral and don't drop any craftable resources. One guy might just say duuuuude but thats all he says because he's stoned all the time anyway. Maybe at least one person might say so, wait, you can build whatever you want in Minecraft?


Dude.
Seriously.
Who protested that Aggro play GTA? No one, to my recollection.
So how about you don't shift that goalpost.

You know full well why I and a few others are upset.
You know full well what, specifically, we object to. And you know full well that, were you on our side of the argument, you wouldn't accept the crap you're trying to peddle here.
We are not talking about Aggro maybe starting a group in GTA, calling it UTMC, and calling it 1%. We are not talking about maybe taking the imagery of this place, the artwork, and even Dan's writing to be given a 1% stamp.
We are talking about something that was done. That a few people even learned about.
And nobody seeing fit to let everybody else know they were being sold as 1% in a place where real 1%ers apparently hang out, also, and play under their own real-life 1% banners. This was done. The rest of the cult wasn't informed, nor asked for their opinion. It was just done.

You know full well why people are angry about the specific nature of what was done, and the manner in which it was done.
So how about you don't pretend like everybody is being unreasonable, uncool, or some other adjective related to not clapping vigorously.
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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby Pattio » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:13 am

I'm not litigating.

I'm mediating.

All parties involved are fully-vested and credentialed stakeholders in this dis-organisation.

I don't want anyone to have to be wrong about something for this group to be able to work towards something that feels right.

Please don't say I'm peddling crap.

I'm paddling as hard as I can.
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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby DerGolgo » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:53 am

Pattio wrote:
Please don't say I'm peddling crap.

I'm paddling as hard as I can.


You may wanna stop belittling everybody who disagrees with you, as your last post did.
I played along with the metaphor you had chosen, the one about killing chicken in minecraft. To illustrate just how and why people, myself included, are upset.
What you were "paddling" there, meanwhile, went straight to mockery after the first sentence.

Here's an idea: This place, its ideals, and the people around here mean a lot to a number of people.
The whole idea of "not 1%" means a lot to a number of people.
So how about taking that seriously, instead of making glib remarks about the one guy who doesn't know minecraft.
That's what I had thought this place was. Where people respected each other enough to take that kind of thing seriously. Where, in case of conflict, people could talk over what was done, rather than just taking sides and only caring about who dunnit.
Certainly a place where a matter of consequence could be discussed without mocking the other side.
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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby Pattio » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:16 am

Can you ratchet down the rhetoric please?

I just gave a comic example of how several different people within my vegan group might feel about me playing minecraft, from vehement moral disapproval, to judgmental practicality, to pragmatic situational relativism, to confused apathy, to intellectually curious inquiry. Those are all individual and legitimate responses. I'm not mocking you.
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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby Aggroton » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:30 am

https://srmag.reader.mywomags.com/Sleazy-Riders--20170821

The magazine will remain available by link only. It is no-longer in the public catalog.
I left it there in case anyone that didn't see would like to and form their own opinions.
The Instagram cannot be taken down until my guy can.
He's in boot camp. So it wont happen anytime soon.


https://www.instagram.com/ootmik_propaganda_gta

Here is the instagram if anyone cares to monitor it.

Id also like to add, nowhere does it state that we there were 1%ers. Simply that we follow those rules.
The page is clearly stated that it is GTA. Every picture is of GTA content.

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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby Bo_9 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:43 pm

This place need a good dumpster fire just to get back to normal.
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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby DerGolgo » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:15 am

Aggroton wrote:https://srmag.reader.mywomags.com/Sleazy-Riders--20170821

The magazine will remain available by link only. It is no-longer in the public catalog.
I left it there in case anyone that didn't see would like to and form their own opinions.


It's still entirely available by google, also. If those search terms work, others work also, generally.
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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby Aggroton » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:45 am

Its deleted.


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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby Jaeger » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:47 am

The original spark for this furor was a FB thread in which someone found the GTA-UTMC thing and basically said “WTF?”

Nobody knew where it came from or whether they were even an Ootmic. Sounds like we’ve figured that part out now, but DerG’s reaction was (and I think still is) entirely appropriate. If there’s something out there that even has the appearance of saying we’re 1% -- and there is – we need to have something explicitly stating “that ain’t us.”

DerG and I were given the keys to the kingdom when BlackJoe punched out and Danno got hit with the Baby Bus. DerG does all the heavy lifting (and there can be quite a lot sometimes), but like him I feel a sense of responsibility for this place, even such as it is. It may be a little-travelled backwater of the internet, but it’s the closest thing to an online home I have – and I suspect others feel the same. We’re protective of this place and the loose disorganization that we are. (Side note: fuck FecesBook.)

As stated in earlier posts, the UTMC was explicitly formed to not be a 1%-type organization. Over the years there have been some discussions about 1%ers, back patches, and the “issues” that go with them. For example, HERE and HERE and HERE. If you skim through those threads you’ll find some pretty strong feelings about the 1% folks and our collective desire to Not Be Them for a variety of reasons.

I went over the GTA links, and there’s really only one thing that still raises my hackles – in the “Ootmic_Propaganda” Instagram. The one that’s top left with Jinx’s artwork that explicitly states “1% rules.” Maybe that’s a reference to gameplay – though that seems redundant in GTA – but even now that makes me uncomfortable. Given that someone brought this to our attention, it means it makes others uncomfortable too.

Additionally, if you’re going to quote someone’s writing – as was done in the online mag and Dan’s “Motorcycle Terrorist Manifesto” – you should credit them either by name or with a link. Otherwise it’s plagiarism. That’s a damn good essay, and he should at least get the credit he deserves. There’s a lot of appropriated artwork as well, though I suspect the artist(s) would be fine with it being used. (Full disclosure: I’m married to an artist who’s had her art stolen so I’m kind’ve sensitive to that.)

The rest of it – the online magazines, the screenshots of biker gangs sporting UTMC patches, etc. – seems pretty innocuous to me. Good, even, if it brings more folks in and/or gets ‘em on motorcycles!

Still, Pattio makes a very valid point in his initial post:

Pattio wrote:…As the online world of connectivity has changed, so has this thread of motorcycle connectivity.

The rise of face book has killed, and will kill, many previously existing online forum communities.

The rise of massively-multiplayer gaming worlds is ongoing and evolving.

These are facts….


He’s absolutely right. Old-skool bulletin boards like this are dinosaurs, and if this amorphous critter called the UTMC is going to survive we need to adapt the best we can. Looping in things like online games may be a good way to keep in touch and build the base. (In fact, both Dan and Joe were busting my chops to get an Xbox so we could play online.)

Nevertheless, while there are precious few “guidelines” around here, we still need to be absolutely clear that the loose affiliation known as the UTMC isn’t 1%.

While there aren’t a lot of outlaw biker gangs where I am, I know others – particularly out West where the Angels, Banditos, etc. are still very active – need to thread that needle very carefully. I know it sounds insane, but the precursor to the UTMC was shut down (driven underground!) because someone thought that the old 667 was some sort of feeler organization for the Angels – and made their displeasure known to Dan and some of the old crew. I don’t want to draw that sort of heat, and I’m pretty sure nobody else does either.

THAT is why DerG reacted as he did and whyI wholeheartedly understand and support his calls. We’re not trying to be jackasses or wield any banhammers, we’re just trying to (a) make absolutely sure that nobody can ever mistake us for anything but a bunch of harmless dorks on motorcycles; and (b) protect the “good reputation” of the UTMC -- it's the only thing we have. :)

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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby Aggroton » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:36 am

Image
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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby Bigshankhank » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:18 am

Is that new, or old?
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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby Aggroton » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:14 pm

Its old. We have moved on to bigger and better. Just wanted to archive a moment, a movement.
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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby DerGolgo » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:19 am

Aggroton wrote:Its old. We have moved on to bigger and better. Just wanted to archive a moment, a movement.


I appreciate that. My real name and address can be found out by a few mouseclicks by anyone concerned. There are quite enough 1%ers in the area. Not having to worry about them seeing the "UTMC" in GTA and getting ideas that might lead them to knock on my door is rather nice.
I live in a part of town where the cops don't really give a fuck unless blood has already been spilled.
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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby AZRider » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:04 pm

Nice to see you here, Aggroton.
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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby MoraleHazard » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:00 am

This was an interesting thread to say the least. I miss old school bulletin boards and I've largely given up on FB b/c I don't want so many details of "me" in one place being used by some company who considers me the product. And a hearty no to any indication that the UTMC is a 1% org or affiliated with one IRL or online.

Also that Kotaku article; fuck me. Imagine going to online meetings and following club rules for a "club" that exists only in people's heads and some gaming company's servers? I think GTA Online needs to institute the San Andreas DMV where your character gets to stand in line for hours to be told he has the wrong forms. Real time hours, btw, no cheating. And no watching Netflix on the second monitor either. You stand there and look at the gov't drones processing forms.
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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby Aggroton » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:42 pm

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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby Aggroton » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:00 pm

The Magazine wont be coming down anytime soon. The UTMC issue was burned in the fire with the rest of my UTMC stuff.

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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby 0l4fderstout » Thu May 31, 2018 7:23 pm

The whole point of UTMC was to reject the 1% and wanna be ‘biker’ images. This thread is a little distressing in that with any possible recognition of the UTMC in GTA aout in the real world would get a member into some pretty bad situations. I do enough long distance scooting that I can potentially wander into ‘claimed territory’ and wind up having to tapdance by having UTMC identifiers on a helmet or jacket. I’d rather not get shanked over video game identities that aren’t accurate.
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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby 0l4fderstout » Thu May 31, 2018 7:24 pm

And Yeah I’m late as hell to this party, but I really felt the need to speak up.
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Re: Online Motorcycle groups : Virtual Worlds- discussion th

Postby Pattio » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:54 am

Thanks for joining in 0l4. These are somewhat tricky times, with competing narratives and overlapping priorities. At this point, I don't personally believe that the UTMC will survive long enough to make a translation to a game-based virtual iteration. We had a member who really enjoyed pursuing that, but he got out ahead of his skis and failed to tell others what he was doing. That led to an outburst of people who have long since given up on this forum taking to FB to complain and condemn, and he has given up our group. I myself have neither an xbox nor a headset to take part in the GTA adventures he was organizing, so I made an effort to steer conversation away from condemning him into looking at how virtual online game-based participation could be an expression of our spirit, but I didn't manage to save him from ostracism for his efforts. At this time, the group spirit is better served to wither in obscurity than to follow his particular path into a particular commercial game platform, and that's the community consensus. Our webmaster physically lives in a place where identifying with a video game places him in physical personal jeopardy, and we have to respect that that outweighs abstract identity ideas. It's not impossible that the philosophical ideas of our group can transcend real-world limitations, but that's not how this cookie crumbled. We lost a member and those of us who remain move on as best we can.
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