Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby DerGolgo » Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:51 am

If you don't like it sweet.
Give coffee-ish flavors a go. There's Coffee ... and Mocca, and Cappucino ...
... or single malt flavor ... heck.
I'm certain.
You should be able to find scrapple! :P
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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby Jaeger » Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:16 pm

OK, so from the research I've done it looks like the trick is getting the right juice -- stuff that doesn't contain nasty shit (e.g., acetyl propionyl, diacetyl).

I'm personally inclined toward tobacco-flavored juice. Any suggestions?

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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby DerGolgo » Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:44 pm

Sorry, no.
I haven't used tobacco flavor since 2011.
I mix my own, these days. Manufacturers with who's non-tobacco aromas I've made good experiences are Twisted Flavors, Capella and German Flavors. I dunno whether Capella make ready-made juice, I know the other two do. It's where I'd look would I be in search of tobacco flavors.
Twisted and Capella should be available in the US.
They do use diacetyl in some of their sweeter products, though.
Just FYI:
Yes, many juices and aromas contain diacetyl. That went through the media here a while back.
Those juices destroy poly-carbon tanks that some vaporizers use. Which is hyper annoying.
BUT.
The smoke of a cigarette contains several hundred times as much diacetyl as the vapor of juice containing it. Not an argument in it's favor, but something worth keeping in mind when it comes to vaping as smoking cessation.
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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby Jaeger » Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:41 pm

OK, couple of questions.

1) I'm getting a lot of spitting/popping from the coil and juice in my mouth. What am I doing wrong? I've various wattages, as low as under 15W. (Note: I'm using the stock Kanger coil that came with the unit. Haven't tried rebuilding anything yet.)

2) What do y'all use to cut the juice to dilute/thin, and how can I tell what VG/PG whatever a particular use is? I've heard folks talk about cutting them, but with what?

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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby DerGolgo » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:23 am

1) not uncommon. Quite the rule with some combinations of devices and juices. I found that, the more PG is in the juice, the more it'll "spit". Sometimes, a higher wattage is actually good there. You're dealing with wet steam regardless, and it will carry along droplets. The size of the droplets is the question. Or, if the coil-head in there will handle it, higher VG.

2) Things that can go into juice to dilute and that I've seen used there: Vegetable glycerin (VG). Propylene glycol (PG). Distilled water. All of which should be highest purity, pharmacy grade, or made for vaping to begin with (though they charge a premium for labeling it for that). Other than that, well, other e-juices.
Never heard about cutting. Heard about people diluting 24mg with 18mg to get 20 or so. And I've heard about people mixing their own, like myself. There is nothing wrong with combining different juices, to make strawberry chocolate when you cannot purchase that combination. But if you were to "cut" your juice with something that has no aroma of its own, you will loose flavor (obviously).

Note that some people will use caffeinated bases instead of those with nicotine, or combinations thereof. Or dilute pure menthol crystals in PG. I recall hearing about the use of ethanol as part of the base. Never tried it, know almost nothing at all, I admit.
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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby jae » Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:16 pm

One flavor I've had (that I was not terribly fond of at first) is "fresh grindz" from Heather's Heavenly Vapes. It's grown on me quite a bit, and blended with Muther Tucker's "yum yum" (pecan pie flavor), is pretty damn good IMO. It's got a bit of a coffee/smoky flavor to it. Part of the reason I didn't like it at first was because of the smoky flavor, but I do like it blended.

You say you're using the stock coil, are you using the 0.5 ohm coil or the 1.5 ohm that came with it? Right now, I'd guess I'm running a roughly 75/25 to 80/20 blend (between the 70VG yumyum and max VG fresh grindz) at about 20-23W on the 0.5 ohm coil (depending on the time of day, air temp seems to make a difference). I still get some minor popping, but it seems to be well-mitigated by holding the button for about a second to let the coil heat up before I actually start to inhale.

I haven't actually tried any of these, but just as an example that I've seen a lot of flavors out there.
https://www.myfreedomsmokes.com/eliquid ... iquid.html

I've ordered from them a few times before and had a good experience. I wish I'd thought to post up the deal sooner, just this past weekend they had a deal where you could get something like 40% off the kanger replacement coils.
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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby guitargeek » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:49 am

Had to share...
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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby Jaeger » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:09 pm

guitargeek wrote:Had to share...


Hey, at least the wife will kiss me now. I'm still keeping the snus, but this bridges the gap. Snus is still way more covert -- and it'd be hard to vape in a full-face helmet (though I'd like to see someone build a rig so you could).

Riddle me this, oh ye experts: Am I right in believing that I can put a drip atomizer on this Kanger SuBox thing I just started using? How big a difference does it make? If so, is it really worth it?

Also, where are y'all buying juice? I've been testing stuff out from the shop down the street, but I know their retail prices are fucking awful. I'm guessing mail-order is the way to go?

And that fucker Golgo keeps sending me shit that only encourages this sort've behavior...

I'd forgotten how much I really do enjoy the act of "smoking"... (he says while blowing smoke-rings)

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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby DerGolgo » Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:35 am

Yes, you can use a dripper atomizer on there. Unless I'm mistaken, you got yourself a 50W machine there. Won't deliver enough power to handle a setup for making BIG clouds. AKA "cloud-chasing". But the airflow can be bigger than most tanks, and you can make some clouds with 50W. A smaller dripper, a "flavor-chaser" should work. In any case, you want high, if not pure, VG.

Note that a dripper is NOT for using while you do other stuff. Think of enjoying a nice hookah or big old pipe. It will occupy most of yer dexterity while you use it. Conversation, watching TV and that sort of thing work. Office work gets tricky.

Important note: I am not aware of any cartomizer-drippers. A few months ago, I tried to find one, but couldn't. That may have changed. The market in vaping has a crazy pace. Most devices I use today were declared "technologically impossible" only a year ago.
A dripper will involve the R in RDA. Rebuilding. You can buy ready-made coils, so all you'd have to do is install, get the hotspots out and add a wick. But just so you know, it's a little bit of extra work.

Smaller drippers I've tried and that should work alright with 50W and dual coils, but can also be built single coil:
Aeolus
Derringer (very nice, actually).
Maquis (notorious flavor chaser).
The Inoy is designed for single-coil only, airflow from below is tasty and this does look interesting.

There are drippers that come with a big sump, or reservoir. These let you vape for a while without dripping every few draws.
The Mrs. Soaky is almost a tank.
The Sherlock Holmes V2 doesn't have quite such a large reservoir, but is easier to build.
Or you can get a bottom-feeder with its own feed, like the Fountain V2. I like that one a lot. Instead of dripping, you fill the plastic bottle and squeeze (or "squonk") any time the wick gets dry.

Note that, where it says "style", that means it's a clone. What vapers call the knock-offs.
Some are shoddily made crap. Others are almost (if not entirely) indistinguishable from the real thing. When the original is made in China, also, and by a small brand, a well made clone is not likely to be any less safe. If you have safety concerns, stick with big China brands (Kanger, eLeaf, iJoy, SMOKtech, Innokin, Wotofo, UD aka 'youdee', Unicig aka "Indulgence") or go "Made in USA" or "Made in Germany" etc., those exist. None are risk free, of course, but the large brands or domestic or European manufacture are less likely to practice inappropriate cost-cutting. Note that, apart from concerns about the use of copper, brass or bronze in combination with juice, that this might lead to excessive uptake of copper, I have not heard of any genuine concerns about materials seeping unhealthy things into the juice. Personally, I'm careful about chrome plating or any kind of color-coating.
Clones from Focalecig tend to be of the well made variety. I also like their customer service, after-sales care and reasonable time to process an order.
The other retailers I have linked I have no experience with. I googled those because I had acquired the devices in question from an outfit I do NOT recommend doing business with, "Fasttech".

As for juice:

Mail order is the place to go, indeed.
I do still buy things from my local store. But only aromas and cotton.
If I used only ready-made juice, my consumption would cost me double or so what it'd cost me to smoke.
I mix my own juice, so I get it just the way I like it and, in consequence, spend less than a third of what brand-name cigs would cost me. So, even while spending too-much money on vape gear, I end up ahead.

When buying juice, check where it is made. You can get cheap juice made in China, tasty stuff even. But I, for one, don't trust their food-and-drug regulation.

Should you decide on mixing your own, you don't have to make such a great production out of it as I do. Click to read my little manual.
Once you have determined what PG/VG ratio you like, what aromas and nicotine strength, you need:
A 10cc syringe for measuring out your aroma.
A needle to to reach the bottom of the aroma bottle without making a mess. I prefer 1.5mm veterinary needles (humans are just sooo squeamish), about 14 gauge.
A calculator and basic maths skills.
Do it thus:
Buy a base in the PG/VG ratio and nicotine strength you like. Or pure VG or VG/H2O, whatever. In a 100ml or so bottle, so you don't have to mess around with a funnel.
Check the aroma bottle label, or google, to find the ratio of aroma you should use.
Work out how many cc of aroma you need for your volume of base. Use the syringe to measure it out and add to the base.
Close bottle and shake well.
Next, steep. Steeping is letting the bottle sit so all the liquids intermingle. This may take between a day and two weeks, depending on what aroma and brand. As a rule: simple and sweet is a day or two, fruity and creamy as much as two weeks, tobacco somewhere in between. Again, bottle label or google.
Heat helps (think "warm summer day" rather than "hotplate"). Sitting the bottle on the radiator (on medium) or next to the water heater works.
Letting a bottle of juice sit in sunlight is not recommended. Even if it's glass, absorbing the UV radiation, I wouldn't recommend it.
Give a good shake every day.
Once is has steeped long enough, enjoy.
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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby jae » Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:30 am

Oooh, that Guardian III kit is nice looking.
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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby Jaeger » Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:13 am

jae wrote:Oooh, that Guardian III kit is nice looking.


Right? I mean, I've only been using this vape thing for about a week so I'm still figuring out which way is up, so to speak, but I do know that holding something pipe-shaped would likely be more comfortable than this gizmo.

I'm not anxious to just go and blow money on more kit, but I'm going to keep an eye out for pipe-shaped alternatives.

There are also these:

Image

Again, tho, I'm not confident about their reliability.

In a perfect world I could find one that's affordable, reliable, and shaped like an old Peterson System pipe:

Image

(Apparently they exist but they're stoopid expensive.)

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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby jae » Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:18 pm

Yeah, I found some back before I bought the Kanger that some guy made out of antique pipes. Looks like they would've had lots of limitations that the Kanger doesn't have, so I'm not disappointed with my choice there, but that Smok piece looks like it's pretty advanced.
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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby DerGolgo » Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:06 pm

I've tried the Cotton Bacon. I like it!
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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby Jaeger » Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:41 pm

jae wrote:Yeah, I found some back before I bought the Kanger ...


I think you and I have the same rig -- SUBOX Mini, right? I was talking to DG about this: my tank is leaking a little at the bottom of the glass. I asked the guys in the shop, they attributed it to my taking it out in the cold. Does your tank leak?

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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby DerGolgo » Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:03 pm

Also took delivery of a new mod today.
The Joytech Cuboid.
It has all the features a geeky vaper would want. But is easy to use.
It does temperature control with Titanium, or Nickel, or Stainles Steel, but also straight up Watt mode. With the firmware upgrade, it'll deliver up to 200W.
It has a nice, large, clear, easy to read display. It doesn't just display the setting, resistance and voltage but, unusually, the current you're drawing in ampere. Also battery charge. But NOT total charge. Rather, the individual charge of each of the two batteries that go in there. Now, that IS neat.
Also neat is that it is honest. Most other VW mods, when you set the power level higher than available voltage or current limitations coupled with the coil's resistance will allow, they'll either cry for momma and display error messages, or flat out lie. While the display says 150W, just doing the math on the voltage it displays, and the resistance, tells you you're only getting about 120 or so. This one, rather neatly, won't even let you sett the wattage any higher than it can deliver with what is mounted on it. No error messages. Neat.
The neatest: The damn thing is TINY. Barely any bigger than the box the pair of 18650 Li-Ion batteries you pit in it will come in. It's, and I'm not kidding, by far the smallest Mod I have used since I gave up on little pen-shaped cartomizer tomfoolery.
It's not even expensive, but appears decently made, thus far. Should retail around $50 or thereabouts. Appears commendable.

Image
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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby jae » Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:41 am

Jaeger wrote:
I think you and I have the same rig -- SUBOX Mini, right? I was talking to DG about this: my tank is leaking a little at the bottom of the glass. I asked the guys in the shop, they attributed it to my taking it out in the cold. Does your tank leak?

--Jaeger

I occasionally get some seepage through the ring you use to adjust the airflow, but it usually only happens either right when it's time to change my coil anyway, or when I'm a bit sloppy in refilling the tank. I haven't had any leaks from the actual tank, but then I did just change my o-rings a couple of weeks ago (nothing wrong with original rings, just switched the black rings out with red).

How is your coil life? The last pack of replacement coils I got were lasting me about a week, but under the same use, the coils in the (seemingly identical) pack I just picked up are only lasting a couple of days before they're tasting burnt, and I'm using the same juice on the same settings. Very weird.
Last edited by jae on Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby jae » Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:48 am

DerGolgo wrote:Also took delivery of a new mod today.
The Joytech Cuboid.
It has all the features a geeky vaper would want. But is easy to use.
It does temperature control with Titanium, or Nickel, or Stainles Steel, but also straight up Watt mode. With the firmware upgrade, it'll deliver up to 200W.
It has a nice, large, clear, easy to read display. It doesn't just display the setting, resistance and voltage but, unusually, the current you're drawing in ampere. Also battery charge. But NOT total charge. Rather, the individual charge of each of the two batteries that go in there. Now, that IS neat.
Also neat is that it is honest. Most other VW mods, when you set the power level higher than available voltage or current limitations coupled with the coil's resistance will allow, they'll either cry for momma and display error messages, or flat out lie. While the display says 150W, just doing the math on the voltage it displays, and the resistance, tells you you're only getting about 120 or so. This one, rather neatly, won't even let you sett the wattage any higher than it can deliver with what is mounted on it. No error messages. Neat.
The neatest: The damn thing is TINY. Barely any bigger than the box the pair of 18650 Li-Ion batteries you pit in it will come in. It's, and I'm not kidding, by far the smallest Mod I have used since I gave up on little pen-shaped cartomizer tomfoolery.
It's not even expensive, but appears decently made, thus far. Should retail around $50 or thereabouts. Appears commendable.

Sounds interesting. It holds two 18650 batteries then?

As far as wattage, do you find yourself turning it up that high? I've been playing with the settings on my Kanger for a while, and using their .5 ohm coils, I've gone as high as 30W, but find I like the flavor and such better closer to 22W (I realize you didn't specify which coils you're using though).


I was considering picking up this mod:
https://www.vapesocietysupply.com/colle ... tarter-kit

mostly because it's smaller than the one I have now, and figured it might be a little more comfortable to just drop in my pocket, but have not read any reviews yet. As I can already kill the 18650 battery in a day of heavy (for me) use, I don't know how much use I'd actually get out of it as those days where I'm concerned about what I've got in my pockets are usually the days I won't be near a charger.
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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby DerGolgo » Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:37 pm

jae wrote:Sounds interesting. It holds two 18650 batteries then?

It does, it does. In series, but it also has a step up and will deliver as much as 9V, even on partially drained batteries, when 7.4V is all they still put out.
There are mods for 1 battery, some for 3. I'm set up for two. When you use mods with multiple batteries, you get a pair of same brand and type when they are fresh and marry them, only ever use them together. If you mix it up, you're likely to kill batteries before their time.
Some mods will hold batteries in parallel, but in the last year, more and more high-amp batteries have come out, so building super low sub-ohm coils isn't as necessary anymore, high voltage becomes an option.
I did see a guy at the vape expo with his home-made, 24 battery (parallel) mod. It's stilly, but it's doable.
The 18650 is by far the most common size, though there is also the 26650. It's 26mm instead of 18mm diameter. I've mostly seen mods with just one of those, doing the job of two 18650s. But you end up with pretty big devices.

jae wrote:As far as wattage, do you find yourself turning it up that high? I've been playing with the settings on my Kanger for a while, and using their .5 ohm coils, I've gone as high as 30W, but find I like the flavor and such better closer to 22W (I realize you didn't specify which coils you're using though).

Sometimes, I do. When I build a low-ohm dual coil or a quad coil that only barely fit.
Different atties call for different wattage. My TFV4 works fine around 70W, even though the coil is supposed to handle more than 100.
Some atties are built for massive airflow, massive vapor production, like my VCMT (I posted the video earlier). It doesn't even get interesting until 120W. I've had builds in there that I ran at 180W. When you like big clouds and, rather than suckling at it, you like to take DEEP and FULL breaths, then 200 W can be useful. I don't use that much power a lot, but it's where good mods have gone. You can't squeeze much more out of a pair of 18650s without getting into tricky amperage ranges. There are mods that take 3 batteries to do that.

jae wrote:I was considering picking up this mod:
https://www.vapesocietysupply.com/colle ... tarter-kit

mostly because it's smaller than the one I have now, and figured it might be a little more comfortable to just drop in my pocket, but have not read any reviews yet. As I can already kill the 18650 battery in a day of heavy (for me) use, I don't know how much use I'd actually get out of it as those days where I'm concerned about what I've got in my pockets are usually the days I won't be near a charger.

1300mAh is not a lot. With 40W, yeah, you might get places. When I run my VCMT at 120 Watts, I go through between two and three pairs of 18650s a day. Some are the good old Konions, 2600 mAH a piece, so 5200 in total. Fair enough, I've had those for a while, so probably more like 4500. But I also use my LG HG2 that I only got recently, 3000 mAH per battery, 6k in total, and so new, it's all there. When I just sit at my desk at home all day, I'll go through three pairs, easy.
With a 40 Watt atty, that'd be one pair, 6000 mAh. 1300 ... nope.
If a shop near you has a cuboid, check it out. It fits into my breast pocket like a charm and leaves enough room for two 30ml juice bottles. Very low dry weight, the batteries are most of the mass, so reasonable center of gravity to hold a big atty.
If you're gonna spend about $50 on a mod, why not get one that'll do several times as much as you like? Sure, you have to buy batteries, too. But, upside: When your batteries wear out, you can get standard-size replacements. With an integral battery, that's another matter.
I'd Shop around. It's better to have and not need than to need what you don't have.

Oh, and battery recommendation.
The 18650 to get is the brown LG HG2. They are worth the cost, if you can get one for $8 a piece, that's entirely reasonable.
Thing is: despite MASSIVE capacity, they are a total rip-off. In the good sense. Specked to handle constant discharge of 20A.
Friend of mine runs his as much as 85 Amps. Those puppies still put out stable voltage and DON'T EVEN GET WARM.
When you're used to the Sony Konion VTC5, specked to handle 30A, gently cook your hands, and then you switch to this, it's almost an eerie experience.
I've heard similar performance claimed for the pink Samsung 30Q. But that, while slightly cheaper, is specked only to 15A and I cannot vouch for it myself.
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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby Jaeger » Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:10 pm

jae wrote:I occasionally get some seepage through the ring you use to adjust the airflow, but it usually only happens either right when it's time to change my coil anyway, or when I'm a bit sloppy in refilling the tank.

How is your coil life? The last pack of replacement coils I got were lasting me about a week...



Honestly, that might be the problem. I've been using the same coil since I bought it -- couple weeks? So I'm sure it needs changing. I'm placing an order for stuff today so hopefully that'll solve it. (And yeah, I'm never really sure whether it's the seal or the airhole.)

And I don't know what my coil life is! I do notice it's starting to taste pretty burnt, so I'm sure it's time to replace (and switch to the other tank in the meantime)...

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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby DerGolgo » Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:02 am

Don't order stuff from Gearbest.
Just don't.
I have ordered from them twice.
The first time, customer service got in touch with me because a few items from my order were "on back order" and I could only get a refund or exchange.
They broke up the order into several shipments, which was fine, but also confusing, since they didn't inform me of that beforehand.

I thought, well, once can go wrong, so a few months later, I placed another order with them. Even with expedited shipping, this time.
They did ship quickly. Except, the main items of the order, a few spare coil-heads for my TFV4, a fancy new atomizer and a bitching VV mod (the Tesla Invader III, 240W, 45 Amp, high-current and shortcut protection, but only a potentiometer and an LED to mess with, simple and beautiful), they were missing.

I wrote to their customer service, asking when I could expect delivery. Since, with expedited shipping, those missing items were now already overdue.
Nope. Refund or exchange. And they offered to refund only the price of the items, which had also gone into the expedited shipping fee.

So, items on their website aren't actually for sale, are only items they'd like to sell.
While their customer service won't notify you of any problems unless you ask.
Don't order from Gearbest.

I can get the mod at my usual supplier, Focalecig, who's after-sales-care is exemplary, but no idea where to find the other stuff. I'm pissed. I was excited to receive that package, especially because of those items that they didn't actually have to sell. Fuck 'em.
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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby DerGolgo » Mon Feb 08, 2016 6:49 am

Ah, what a delightful little panic.
The Bundesgerichtshof, the second highest court in Germany, the guys who handle all big-ticket stuff that is not quite a constitutional matter, essentially just found that selling e-juice with nicotine in it is criminal. Outright criminal.

Fella was charged with violating the Provisional Tobacco Law (it's been provisional since 1974 but is supposed to be replaced by an asinine European-directive-driven law this year that was entirely written by Philip Morris, BAT et al) went through all his appeals. The arrest was in 2012, the final decision of the Bundesgerichtshof was on December 23 last year (merry christmas ...).
Supposedly, it's only a single-case decision, does not create precedent. But still.

I've tried to read a part of the decision, of which I've been aware nor for 70 odd minutes.
Apparently, e-cigarettes are not intended to help people quit smoking, are not marketed to help people quit smoking and, oddly enough, cannot be considered to be a cessation aid by any regular person.
Consequently, they fall under the aforementioned provisional tobacco law, rather then the drug law that regulates medications and, as such, cessation aids.
The only reason they fall under the tobacco law appears to be nicotine. They make a point of mentioning that e-juice is a tobacco-product even though it's not smoked or chewed.

So, in the eyes of the court, 99.5% VG with a few milligrams per milliliter of nicotine is not, actually, that. But, rather, is nicotine with an illegitimate adulterant, the Glycerine in question.
The poor guy who spent years building a business, even making sure all his products carried the appropriate health-warnings (but failed to make sure not to sell to minors, though that wasn't the core issue he was charged with), has lost it all.
Any other guy with a shop for e-juice is probably running to their lawyers right now.

Fucking asshatery. I've got enough VG with fairly high nicotine to last me till the end of 2017, at the very least (though the use-by date is in May 2017), but I've just ordered another big bottle, just to be sure.

EDIT: And now, suddenly, it's supposed to be a fundamental decision after all, creating precedent and an interpretation of the law that is binding for lower courts. Ferk. :x
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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby Jaeger » Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:15 am

DerGolgo wrote:Ah, what a delightful little panic.
The Bundesgerichtshof, the second highest court in Germany, the guys who handle all big-ticket stuff that is not quite a constitutional matter, essentially just found that selling e-juice with nicotine in it is criminal. Outright criminal.
...Apparently, e-cigarettes are not intended to help people quit smoking, are not marketed to help people quit smoking and, oddly enough, cannot be considered to be a cessation aid by any regular person.
Consequently, they fall under the aforementioned provisional tobacco law, rather then the drug law that regulates medications and, as such, cessation aids.
The only reason they fall under the tobacco law appears to be nicotine. They make a point of mentioning that e-juice is a tobacco-product even though it's not smoked or chewed.
...
EDIT: And now, suddenly, it's supposed to be a fundamental decision after all, creating precedent and an interpretation of the law that is binding for lower courts. Ferk. :x


I wonder if this is related to why you guys in the Eurozone can't get the Swedish Snus. It's illegal all over Europe except for Sweden.

That fucking sucks, tho. Will that prevent you from getting the components as well? And when do they propose starting enforcement?

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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby jae » Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:18 am

Sounds like lots of people will be mixing their own, assuming it's still legal to sell juice without nicotine (and I'm fairly confident someone will find a way to sell just the nicotine concentrate)...
There, I said it.
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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby DerGolgo » Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:35 am

Jaeger wrote:I wonder if this is related to why you guys in the Eurozone can't get the Swedish Snus. It's illegal all over Europe except for Sweden.

That fucking sucks, tho. Will that prevent you from getting the components as well? And when do they propose starting enforcement?

--Jaeger


All I can find out in a hurry is that Snus was outlawed in Germany and the rest of Europe (except Sweden) as part of an EU regulation that synchronized tobacco laws some time back.
It was apparently not un-popular in Austria, also.

It will not and cannot prevent me from getting gear. I can always buy in China, can't I, and unless they make a law prohibiting the import of vaping devices, they can't stop me.
It's not about enforcement as such, they just found that a decision made by a lower court in 2012 was correct, the man had broken the law.
As it turns out, they specifically made a decision about "cig-a-like" devices, the shitty little thing that look like cigarettes and start up when you draw on them (like in the Robert Rankin novels). Those, and refill cartridges for such devices, and the liquid contained therein. How and what and why all that applies to other substances, I know it not.
The law here basically exists to give those in positions of power something they can use to justify whatever they want to do anyway.

jae wrote:Sounds like lots of people will be mixing their own, assuming it's still legal to sell juice without nicotine (and I'm fairly confident someone will find a way to sell just the nicotine concentrate)...


The problem is, is the sale of pure nicotine legal? It is a "Gefahrstoff" in pure or highly concentrated forms, a harmful substance. Some of those may not be sold to just anyone, and there's special safety rules and whatnot.

The problem I have now is that the stuff I use to add nic to my concoctions, 99.5% VG, pharmacy grade, with some nicotine dissolved in it. In the decision, the way I understand it, they classify that as a tobacco product adulterated with Glycerin, hence illegal to distribute. But their decisions was about the cig-a-likes and the cartridges that guy was selling.
Hurrah for legal uncertainty.
Like I said, I ordered another bottle, I'll be fine for a few years. All the other ingredients, aromas, propylene-glycol, vegetable glycerin sans nicotine, they have endless legitimate commercial applications. They can't even add adulterants, like they do with medical alcohol, to make them unpleasant. Lot's of people need pharmacy grade material, cannot be in any way adulterated.
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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby DerGolgo » Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:43 am

And now, suddenly, somebody notices that this court decision violates a 2014 EU regulation.
So cannot be relevant to anything going on now, can only be relevant to that old case, even if the court just so happened to not mention this in their decision.
Or the press misreported. Wah.
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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby DerGolgo » Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:50 pm

BTW, if anyone wants to invest in a good set of 18650s, this list makes the rounds with a reasonable reputation of reliable reportage.
I have tried out the Samsung 30Q. They work quite nice, I'm just about to order another big stack (all my Konions are on their last legs) and, according to this, they handle a LOT more than the 15A OEM spec. At the risk of whoever dares run them at higher currents, obviously, but they certainly do NOT overheat. At least at 25A they don't.

Image
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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby DerGolgo » Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:10 am

Looking suave, no?
Picture 14.jpg

That's not the atty that came included with the pipe-mod, I'm keeping that in reserve for emergencies.
Picture 15.jpg

And I can point with pipe now! :mrgreen:
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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby Jaeger » Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:23 am

NOICE! How's the vape itself?

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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby DerGolgo » Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:57 am

Pretty good, pretty good.
Like I said, different atty. The one that came with it is the TFV4 Mini (or nano or micro or some such). Which is identical to the TFV4, except for a shorter chimney and less juice capacity. The regular TFV4 isn't exactly a flavor-chaser, but pretty decent. I use it when I am away from home for extended periods and, even if I took my blowtorch and wire-cutters with me, couldn't rebuild an RTA.
Back to this new mod.
Features are standard SMOK. You can set how strong the vape comes on, which is good, five different settings. Min, soft, normal, hard, max.
The fire-button reacts as quick as it should. You can set the display to show only the real important stuff, like just the watts, or to show it all, resistance and battery charge and all. It'll even do time and date when not being fired.
It's got SMOK's temperature control, too, and resistance can be fine-tuned by hand, which is a feature-set that I have tried out on another SMOK box and, while not absolutely user-friendly and easy, does its job once you've worked out how to use the whip.
The user interface is surprisingly intuitive. It's got only one button to do it all, but I figured it out without even consulting the manual. Kinda what you'd expect a mod from Apple to behave like.
If that shit ain't for you, you can adjust it all via bluetooth. It's also got USB for firmware updates, gonna check for one later today.

The exterior of the device feels nice and solid. The 510 connector is a bit larger than the popular 22mm, the atty that comes with it is also 22mm. That 510 is actually 26mm wide. Haven't seen much in that size.
But it don't matter. It feels quite solid, well made and all, sits nice in my hand, the fire button is in the right place. While fingerprints do show, as they do on any shiny black surface, they aren't conspicuous.
As far as my first impressions go, I'd recommend it as a 75W mod regardless of the pipe-exterior.
Most important, I can now vape and then point at people with it! :mrgreen:
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Re: Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

Postby jae » Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:53 am

I've been buying Kanger replacement coils and misc building materials from a website called myfreedomsmokes.com, and occasionally get marketing emails from them. They were offering a "mystery box" for about $45 so I thought I'd try my luck and spring for it, as well as a couple of sets of replacement coils (standard .5 ohm I've been using as well as a set of Kanger's clapton coils, and an extra battery). What came in was two bottles of their house branded liquid (I've yet to try), as well as a full Kanger Nebox kit, extra set of .5 ohm coils, another 40A battery, and a battery charger (all this in addition to the coils and battery I specifically ordered).

The Nebox is temperature-control capable, and came with one of their Ni200 coils installed. It's weird in that the tank is integrated with the mod, and temp control is taking a while to get used to, but it does seem to be a pretty decent setup. Only complaints so far are that the battery is not the easiest to change (screw on cap), and likewise the tank isn't the easiest to fill, but it's huge and really no more a pain than the Subox Mini tank. I'll get some pictures up here shortly, but I feel confident in saying I got my money's worth on the mystery box.
Last edited by jae on Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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