Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreants

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Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreants

Postby Mk3 » Fri Aug 05, 2016 6:54 am

Here's the background:

I'm out of the air force, I have a job with an elevator company as a project manager.  Training for 6-10months at part pay (about 70 % of standard) then pick up and go with good pay check and okay benefits.  Fairly stable work, good market, decent career prospect as an industry.  I can do this without over extending myself.

Then Fermi Labs called me back....

Operations Manager for the Sanford Underground Research Facility... Looking for dark matter.  Final interview would be soon, and I have a better than average shot of getting picked up.  It's 1/2 time in Chi, half time in SURF (SoDak).  Pay probably fine, stable, in my wheelhouse, academically and professionally challenging, taps lifelong scientific ambitions.  But I'll miss soccer games and science fairs and other kid things, but I'll miss them for DARK MATTER.

Bottom lines, I want to be a happy human. The things at ends are home-time stability vs ambition... Kid time availability, vs part of something Bigger. Time to wander to casa rench and drink, or make a mark on the world, and maybe even further.
I know this is ultimately my call, but I'm a "data guy" and this place is a decent source of unfiltered diverse advice.
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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby Bigshankhank » Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:09 am

Choose anything other than working for an elevator company. Seriously I deal with those prima-donna shitbags regularly (I'm a general contractor), and they rank just slightly above Motivational Speakers on a scale of worthless subhumans.
If it were me, sounds like Fermi would be a hell of a lot more engaging personally and professionally, and if you are fulfilled in your work your home life will benefit from having a happier father.
Good luck!
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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby red » Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:16 am

Tough call. Family Moments vs Science Moments. How flexible would Fermi be about scooting out of NoDak back to Chi for big family moments? Is it a set 50/50 split between the two locations? As in will you miss all the soccer games or just a few? How does your spawn feel about science?

If I had a Dad around when I was a kid but he was gone part of the time to do something that cool, I would be ok with it and feel proud about what he did.
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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby Zim » Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:19 am

You're asking the Underground Terrorist Motorcycle Cult.
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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby MATPOC » Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:29 am

tough call, did you ask your kid?
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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby Hengry » Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:46 am

Very tough call. First let me say, I have a friend at Fermi and he's always worried about budget and getting laid off. I'm sure it would be totally different projects, I've never had a dark matter convo with him in regards to work, and maybe congress likes funding dark matter projects, but there's something to think about. As for the little guy, quality will always matter way more than quantity. Even when it comes to time. I love my Dad, would do anything for him. I have no hard feeling about him from childhood. That said, the truth is he was also away a lot, but more than that when he was home he mostly needed to rest and recharge and that did not often include doing stuff with the kids. We did do cool stuff on occasion sure, but I'd say majority of time he wanted us to leave him alone. Now a days we've got technology to keep us in touch over distances and so long as your dedicated to making the most out of the 50% you're home....I don't see a big red flag in following your dreams. Dark Matter. Just Wow. Not saying there won't be some rough patches to get through but I totally believe you can do it.
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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby nate » Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:04 am

Bigshankhank wrote:Choose anything other than working for an elevator company. Seriously I deal with those prima-donna shitbags regularly (I'm a general contractor), and they rank just slightly above Motivational Speakers on a scale of worthless subhumans.


This, Especially if it's with Otis.
And he thought that, had he been wearing his guns, he may well have drawn one and put a bullet into her cold and whoring little heart.
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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby DerGolgo » Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:53 am

I'll 2nd brother MATPOC. Ask the kid. Don't let him decide, and certainly don't give him the impression that it's his decision (just in case it don't work out, so he won't feel guilty and stuff).

My father was out from about sunrise till after sunset during the 80s, so I didn't get to see him a lot, and he'd be out Mon-Fri during the 90s.
Any time he was at home during these two decades, he'd work. I barely got to know him before this century, and indeed, that sucked balls.
A significant part of that suckage was that, even when he was home, he wouldn't have time for me.
I'm sure that, especially with modern technology, your lad won't suffer from his dad following a dream. That's practically what Skype was made for.
Though I'd qualify: As long as you make sure to spend quality time with him when you're home. And maybe take him along and show him around the underground secret laboratory (it's underground, so it's secret, period) one in a while.

Also, if you work in an industry with a reputation as Hank suggests, there's a chance you won't much enjoy your job.
That chance is real anywhere, including Fermilab, obviously.
But with "Operations Manager Sanford Underground Research Facility, FermiLab, searching for Dark Matter" in your resume, I'd suspect you'd have a LOT more options than "Project Manager for installing machines that take people up and down in buildings."
Compared to "Captain, Space Command, USAF", dealing with elevators and elevator related projects sounds like a step down. Tearing the mask off of nature to stare into the face of god, though, that'd have some continuity.

Most importantly:
Keep in mind that I have no kids, no degree, no job-training and no social skills, either, so my opinion on this situation should be considered with ... well, with that in mind.
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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby Jaeger » Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:32 am

Mk3 wrote:I'm out of the air force...

Then Fermi Labs called me back.... Operations Manager for the Sanford Underground Research Facility... Looking for dark matter.  ...

Bottom lines, I want to be a happy human. The things at ends are home-time stability vs ambition... Kid time availability, vs part of something Bigger.


Ooh. Oh my. That's a tough one.

First, congratulations of regaining ownership of your own ass. Getting away from Uncle Sam's clutches is a Good Thing, especially given current circumstances... :shock:

As for the question: While I hesitate to even answer because there are so many variables that I don't know... my inclination would be to go for it. Here's why:

1) It is not necessarily forever. I don't how old your kids are, but assuming they're reasonably young (you're younger than me, right?) the circumstances will likely change and you'll have time. It will also likely open more opportunities down the road than working at an elevator company.

2) Your kid(s) will be proud of you. I mean, for fuckssakes, "My dad works for the elevator company" vs. "Yeah, my dad is an atomic physicist experimenting with dark matter." Duh.

3) You'll appreciate home more when you're there. As someone who works from home and has waaay more time with his kids than most working dads, I GOTTA GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE PLEASE HELP ME.

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4) It is more likely to make you happy. Working in a wage-slave job to pay the bills sucks (ask me how I know). Being happy will make you a better father for when you're around your kids. When I'm a basket case due to work I'm a shitty dad, just like my dad was to me.

Like I said, this is based solely on what little I know about your situation, but if you think the kids (and Mrs.?) can be ok with it I'd give it a go. If it doesn't work or one party is going crazy you can change it.

YMMV

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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby Mk3 » Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:56 am

Responding from phone, so short hand:

Schindler's lifts not Otis.

I'd set the 50/50 but roughly 2wks on/off

I thought nuclear weapons sounded really cool too, then i got there, and it sucked radioactive donkey balls.

The folks at Schindler are really cool so far, mostly former military O's, and I fit right in with the sarcasm and the Buells.


I'm still just interviewing w/Fermi but based this and other considerations, I think if I get an offer I'll take it (holy fuck, what an I getting myself into this time, and what happened to my good decision making synapses)
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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby Bigshankhank » Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:21 pm

Mk3 wrote:...

Schindler's lifts not Otis.

...


...or Thyssen/Krupp, it doesn't make much difference unless it's a genuine Wonka-vator.

In all honesty, I know a good elevator tech or PM can make some big bucks, but there will likely be a lot of travel (how many new elevators do you think are being installed locally on a daily basis?) so consider that.
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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby Rench » Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:24 pm

The Renchita flipped the fuck out when you left last night, "WHERES MY DOG!?!?!?!" So if you could get the job that involves fucking off half the time so our progeny can share custody on the curr, that would be greeeeeaaaat...

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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby guitargeek » Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:15 pm

Fermi.
Elitist, arrogant, intolerant, self-absorbed.
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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby DerGolgo » Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:35 pm

Mk3 wrote:I thought nuclear weapons sounded really cool too, then i got there, and it sucked radioactive donkey balls.


Consider this.
If you work at the elevator place, you'll possibly just be "the new guy who thinks he's the bee's knees coz' he worked with atom bombs".

If you go to Fermi ... once upon a time, there weren't a lot of nuclear physicists in the world. Your side of the pond, approximately most of them ended up working on the Manhattan Project. And a lot of them later became biologists because of it.
You'll be the one ... who clambered from the pit of unspeakable horrors. Out of the dark place, and into the light of pure science. They'll know, if they talk to you about a fast neutron, or a beta-decay, or a reaction cross section, you'll actually understand what they're saying ... in a way that's not entirely comfortable ...
You could be the dark, cool kid, with a shady past he ain't allowed to talk about ... or people with guns come kicking down the doors ...
And if anyone tries to intimidate you with what impressive stuff they work out in their theories, what's going on at the center of a star or a black hole, what terrifying forces ... you can just tell them you used to arrange the nuts and bolts to end all human civilization in an afternoon. In a fireworks show that'd render the entire planet a hot, lifeless rock. Glowing mildly while a few sattelites, space-probes and junk on the moon would be the only testament anyone there had ever studied any black holes or stars at all.
If there were absolutely anything to be afraid of, don't you think I would have worn pants?

I said I have a big stick.
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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby Mk3 » Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:41 pm

DerGolgo wrote:
Mk3 wrote:I thought nuclear weapons sounded really cool too, then i got there, and it sucked radioactive donkey balls.


Consider this.
If you work at the elevator place, you'll possibly just be "the new guy who thinks he's the bee's knees coz' he worked with atom bombs".

If you go to Fermi ... once upon a time, there weren't a lot of nuclear physicists in the world. Your side of the pond, approximately most of them ended up working on the Manhattan Project. And a lot of them later became biologists because of it.
You'll be the one ... who clambered from the pit of unspeakable horrors. Out of the dark place, and into the light of pure science. They'll know, if they talk to you about a fast neutron, or a beta-decay, or a reaction cross section, you'll actually understand what they're saying ... in a way that's not entirely comfortable ...
You could be the dark, cool kid, with a shady past he ain't allowed to talk about ... or people with guns come kicking down the doors ...
And if anyone tries to intimidate you with what impressive stuff they work out in their theories, what's going on at the center of a star or a black hole, what terrifying forces ... you can just tell them you used to arrange the nuts and bolts to end all human civilization in an afternoon. In a fireworks show that'd render the entire planet a hot, lifeless rock. Glowing mildly while a few testaments, space-probes and junk on the moon would be the only testament anyone there had ever studied any black holes or stars at all.



This rock will never be lifeless, we just won't be on it anymore.--edit, of course it will eventually be lifeless, but we aren't cool enough as a species to make it happen.
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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby DerGolgo » Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:43 pm

EDIT: This here is the inevitable thread-jack, for which I apologize. Ignore and move along unless you're interested in the end of all life on the surface of this planet.

Mk3 wrote:This rock will never be lifeless, we just won't be on it anymore.--edit, of course it will eventually be lifeless, but we aren't cool enough as a species to make it happen.


It hasn't been such a big deal, what with the cold war being over (ha!). But a few years back, I read about what climatologists found when they pondered what would come after the nuclear winter.
When the soot settles down ... but so many things got burned up in the nuclear war, the CO2 level is a couple of times what it is now.
All that biomass from organisms that died and decayed during the nuclear winter. Pretty big deal of surface-dwelling flora and fauna, dead, decaying. Releasing megatons of methane. A very bad greenhouse gas.
The polar ice, and ice on the lower latitudes, melting in a hurry. Severely increased evaporation puts more and more water into the atmosphere. Fun fact: water is actually a pretty severe greenhouse gas.
Rising temperatures melt the permafrost, methane trapped underground therein is released.

The estimate I recall was that, a century or two after a nuclear war, earth's atmosphere would start resembling that of Venus. Where Tin will melt ...

Not quite as likely as a nuclear war, according to Wikipedia. But after an all-out wargasm-style style exchange with tens of thousands of nukes, it's possible, we can do it.
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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby AZRider » Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:53 pm

Applying for a job with the elevator company in six months saying "That laboratory thing didn't really work out I think I will do better with you guys" is much more likely to have a happy ending than applying to Fermilab saying that six months at the elevator company didn't work out. Elevators are not your passion, so if you leave Fermi and wind up at an outboard motor company instead, it's not like you passed up the job you dearly want.
Do the cool thing. Some potential future employers won't know what to make of your resume and will choose the candidate who is predictably on path. You don't really want to work for them anyway.
The tricky part is the absent dad part, and I know how important it is to you. You know what his living arrangements will be when you are away, so you know whether he will be well cared for on the away weeks. You know how the little guy handles stress better than any of us, so you have a clue how this would affect him.
As many above have said, a big part of being a good dad is coming home with the best of yourself available to share. I imagine that you will come home more fully the man you want to be if you choose science.
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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby Mk3 » Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:41 am

I am now (as of 17 October) the Operations Coordinator for the Sanford Underground Research Facility, the prince of Nerd Mountain. Signed the offer last night, let the sciencing commence!
"...when someone asks you if you're a god, you say "YES "!

"UTMC, it's an international disorganization of racers, aficionados, mechanics, lunatics, and scumbags. It's like an online motorcycle Mos Eisley."
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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby Bo_9 » Fri Sep 23, 2016 6:07 am

Kick ass sir!
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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby Merlyn » Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:35 am

Mk3 wrote:I am now (as of 17 October) the Operations Coordinator for the Sanford Underground Research Facility, the prince of Nerd Mountain. Signed the offer last night, let the sciencing commence!


Congratulations!
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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby red » Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:37 am

jangleplatz! Congrats!
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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby Pintgudge » Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:48 am

Makes me happy to hear this!

Now you can do "Other" things with the building blocks of the universe, as opposed to what you used to do.

Yayyyy!
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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby DerGolgo » Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:53 am

Good job, capital, adjective substantive-noun substantive-pronoun verb noun! Science for the win!!! WOOT!
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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby guitargeek » Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:51 pm

Elitist, arrogant, intolerant, self-absorbed.
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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby rolly » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:12 pm

All hail the prince of nerd mountain! HUZZAH!
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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby Bigshankhank » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:57 pm

Fuckin'. A.
It's time for Humankind to ditch the imaginary friends of our species' childhood and grow the fuck up.
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Let me sacrifice your soul to the ruler of darkness

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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby Jaeger » Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:34 pm

Hot damn. And South Dakota has some gorgeous roads I hear...

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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby Skkot » Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:57 am

Hooray!
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Re: Massive life changes... Advice from motorcycle miscreant

Postby califpete » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:42 am

Acronym being SURF, I--as an old beach kid--approve.
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