WE LOVE BIG BROTHER

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WE LOVE BIG BROTHER

Postby Jaeger » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:54 pm

This makes me weep a little on the inside. LINK TO DAILY BEAST

Excerpt:

The Daily Beast wrote:Sorry, But No, We Don’t Hate the Surveillance State
Edward Snowden won at the Oscars, but he’s losing in RL. We don’t hate the surveillance state. We’re embracing it more and more.
Citizenfour may have won at the Oscars, but its subject, Edward Snowden, has lost.

That’s the big takeaway from last week’s CPAC, the Conservative Political Action Conference. When it comes to mass surveillance—despite the strenuous efforts of Glenn Greenwald, Laura Poitras, and others—establishment Democrats have simply shut down internal political opposition to the spying state. On the right, where libertarian idealism and conservative paranoia still thrive, Snowden’s spirit, if not always his means, stood more of a chance to catch on.

Until, it would seem, now.

At one CPAC panel, former National Security Agency head Gen. Michael Hayden drew cries of disbelief when he called himself “an unrelenting libertarian.” Astonishing as his remarks may be, it’s hard not to think the groans and shouts arose because no one and nothing was there to stop Hayden from saying them.

Heckle in vain, partisans of liberty. The worm of freedom has turned. “Judging by this afternoon at CPAC and the rhetoric around ISIS,” National Review chief Rich Lowry tweeted from the conference, “the party has left behind [its] flirtation w[ith] Rand Paul-style foreign policy.”...


I suggest you read the whole thing.

--Jaeger
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Re: WE LOVE BIG BROTHER

Postby guitargeek » Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:49 pm

You're not surprised, are you?
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Re: WE LOVE BIG BROTHER

Postby Bo_9 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:47 pm

If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear...

LOL!
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Re: WE LOVE BIG BROTHER

Postby Jaeger » Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:09 pm

guitargeek wrote:You're not surprised, are you?


...no? :cry:

Bo_9 wrote:If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear...

LOL!


Riiiiiiight.

The sad part is that on a certain level they're right: the cyber threats we (the West, Americans, parse that how you will) are facing are beyond my capacity to grok, let alone deal with. Someone's gotta, but... Fuck almighty, is this really what it's come to?

We're so screwed...


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Re: WE LOVE BIG BROTHER

Postby Toonce(s) » Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:57 am

Well, yes. Most internet users are merely consumers and have no real means of self-protection without resorting to commercial products and the assurance that others are keeping their data safe. Of course this breaks all the time with data thefts, which is what consumers see. The prospects of cyber-terrorism at an entirely different level are real, though, remember how the Iranian centrifuges were hacked and instructed to destroy themselves? We love the array of connected lifestyle products, turning the air conditioner up with your iPhone, etc. This trend of network automation is making security issues run deeper and deeper. And unless your day job or consuming hobby is low level network security, you can't do jack shit about it yourself. This is really what it has come to.
It's a stack of fuck-shit on top of itself, Ninja.
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Re: WE LOVE BIG BROTHER

Postby Jaeger » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:17 am

Toonce(s) wrote:Well, yes. Most internet users are merely consumers and have no real means of self-protection ... you can't do jack shit about it yourself. This is really what it has come to.


Yep, absolutely agreed, but it's still distressing.

Let me put it this way: we are increasingly forced to rely on the police to physically protect us, and how's that working out?

I've precisely no idea how to fix this problem since you're right, most of us (including me) are incapable of dealing with cyber security. I can only trust the advice of people I think are smarter or more knowledgeable than me -- and they usually say "install [XXX] anti-virus software, it's worked for me."

Consolidation and concentration of power with one small group combined with ignorance and apathy in everybody else is a dangerous thing.

Do not trust your cellphone, your computer, your Facebook, or anything with a built-in camera. And believe me, I won't be installing a "smart" system in my house any time soon.

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Re: WE LOVE BIG BROTHER

Postby Bo_9 » Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:20 am

if you are serious about trying to keep all of your "stuff" from prying eyes regardless of who is funding them you need to study up on how to setup and maintain encryption on anything you don't want someone to get a peek at. It still won't keep them from seeing it if they have a lot of time, but if the Feds come get your laptop they will eventually get to everything. I have a friend that encrypts everything. Chat logs, email archives, all documents and pictures, he'll even send all email encrypted if the recipient is willing to mess with decrypting it. He's a nutter. Online presence should be regarded as public regardless if it is Friendface, web email service, cloud storage or backup, or even PM's on forums.
All that said, I do this crap for a living and I can't be bothered to encrypt all my crap at home or stop posting on public forums.
My guess is that the "powers that be" have been listening, watching, and recording far more for far longer than we will ever be informed of.
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Re: WE LOVE BIG BROTHER

Postby Jaeger » Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:26 pm

Bo_9 wrote:if you are serious about trying to keep all of your "stuff" from prying eyes ... My guess is that the "powers that be" have been listening, watching, and recording far more for far longer than we will ever be informed of.


Yeah, I figure if it's connected to teh interwebz it's public knowledge, and if some 3-letter agency really wanted it I'd be screwed. Thankfully, I suppose, I live a boring enough life that I won't merit much inspection.

I had a conversation with a high-ranking Air Force officer (he just made full bird) several years ago over beers. Let's call him Bob. At the time, Bob was working in the Big Funny 5-Sided Building. The convo went something like this (the last line is verbatim):

Bob: I finally just gave up and got on Facebook and the Internet. All the information is already out there, so ya might as well just live life. If the government -- or anybody -- really wants it they can get it anyway.
Jaeger: Y'know, Bob, it really makes me sad to hear a spooky guy like you say that.
Bob: [Looking me dead in the eye] No, it shouldn't make you sad, it should make you very afraid.

:shock:

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Re: WE LOVE BIG BROTHER

Postby DerGolgo » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:06 pm

Anyone who thinks a future despotic regime might be overthrown by a plucky resistance of people in black leather jackets and berets, running around with fake passports, is brutally mistaken.
There is a reason why the Russian government, for example, has been ordering typewriters like mad.
We are moving into a state of the world where digital technology is not only the convenience, or the norm, but the only choice. In many situations, there already is no longer any analog alternative.
Even if you never touch a computer yourself. Somebody will, on your behalf.
You don't have to carry a smartphone, or any phone, to be tracked. Gait-recognition is just one of many tricks with which to identify someone. The human heart emits microwave as it beats, and a while back, somebody patented a method to identify individuals that way. We have RFID chips up the whazoo these days, even where we don't expect them.
And, quite often, putting a universal piece of commodity hardware in a device, like the USB ports in the DVRs my employer rents to our customers that don't actually do anything, is more cost efficient than to come up with something specialized. That commodity hardware will, eventually, feature pressure sensor that can double as microphones, a simple camera, satellite navigation, you name it. Your stove will have wireless. Your tumble dryer GPS. There will be bluetooth in your shoes (okay, that one'd actually make sense, with a step-counter ...)
We are fast approaching an era when, even without drones, even without the clearly visible cameras we associate with CCTV now, it entirely likely that some kind of camera will pick us up, just about every second we are out of our home. And probably in our home, too. And other sensors, quite before we start with traffic analysis and other gimmicks they can run on us.

And they will not just see what you do. They will see what you'd like to do.
Yes, you can't read thoughts or predict what a person with free will may do, yadda yadda yadda. If I asked you to imagine, say, your SO's reaction to finding a bag of weed on the porch, you would have an answer, wouldn't you. Because you know them, you know how they'll probably react.
Imagine a world where, from childhood on, everything you do has been recorded and analyzed, one way or another. By learning systems, like neural networks, that use evolutionary algorithms to build models of your behavior. Predictions from which they can test against observation, because of the all-encompassing fog of data-gathering we inhabit.
They are already using such tricks to predict where crimes will occur and cops should hang around, in Chicago and LA for example. This is only the beginning. Your smartphone may well, one day, run a background app that gathers data and analyzes it in a simplified manner, to pass stuff along to big brother in case it gets a suspicion you might be up to no good. The computer that monitors us will not be a huge, evil server farm in Utah. That's just where they will delegate from, if that. The computers that monitor us will be our smartphones, our tablets, our notebooks and desktop PCs. And smart fridges, DVRs, microwave ovens, and smart-toilets.

If they actually still do anything. I've heard enough predictions that, in the future, a consumer-device, like a desktop computer or smartphone or whatnot, will only be a client, a terminal on a network, because running everything "through the cloud" will be so much more efficient. Google already lets you use a reasonable office suite, google docs, or so I hear, without installing anything on your machine. The ongoing tests for 5G mobile internet have reached bandwidths of 1 TERRAbit per second. That's 1,024 gigabit, aka 128 gigabytes, it's as good as optical fiber. In a few decades, when the google-drones are flying overhead to provide wireless service, when the mobile-phone networks have been built up sufficiently, why not network it all? Caution, your electric toothbrush may need a reboot after doing a routine software-upgrade upon startup.

We will not just be monitored, but the very software that's the only option for us to do anything like write up a long piece of text, do graphic design, anything, communicating of course, will run on machines we will have no access to and we can be locked out of at will.

And if you're worried the government might use this for nefarious purposes, well, that may be.
But will corporations use it for fluffy kittens and rainbows?
Do you think you can still grab a beer after work without finding it on your health-insurance statement the week after? They already ARE installing monitoring devices in cars so car-insurers can better judge driver's behavior.
If you make a claim on your homeowners insurance, don't be surprised to find your policy suddenly void because you don't always remember to close your bathroom window when you go out. They WILL know, eventually.

Oh, no, we can't hire you, you're too likely to date women who are likely to cause you distracting emotional distress.
Yes, counselor, of course we'd prefer to find a settlement with your client out of court. By the way, does your husband know who you really think about in bed?
If there were absolutely anything to be afraid of, don't you think I would have worn pants?

I said I have a big stick.
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Re: WE LOVE BIG BROTHER

Postby red » Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:42 am

DerGolgo wrote:And they will not just see what you do. They will see what you'd like to do.
Yes, you can't read thoughts or predict what a person with free will may do, yadda yadda yadda. [/i]


Actually.... http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/mind-reading-technology-speeds-ahead/
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Re: WE LOVE BIG BROTHER

Postby DerGolgo » Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:45 am

That's the actual analyzing of data from the brain, of cognitive processes. Indeed, they may figure that out. But without a brain-scanner, they'd have to rely on very sophisticated observation of external symptoms of cognitive activity.
Brute forcing traffic-analysis on behavioral data seems ... cheaper. Remember, it's for-profit businesses that'll be doing this.
Of course, on the other hand, the iPhone 9 may come with an integrated Magnetoencephallograph, so ...
If there were absolutely anything to be afraid of, don't you think I would have worn pants?

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Re: WE LOVE BIG BROTHER

Postby Jaeger » Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:21 am

Congress turns away from post-9/11 law, retooling U.S. surveillance powers

WaPo wrote:Congress on Tuesday rejected some of the sweeping intelligence-gathering powers it granted national security officials after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, with the Senate voting to end the government’s bulk collection of private telephone records and to reform other surveillance policies.

The bill, known as the USA Freedom Act, passed on a 67-to-32 vote, against the will of Senate Republican leaders who wished to preserve existing spy programs....


While I'm lukewarm on Rand Paul, I'll give the guy credit where it's due. Well done, Senator. Glad someone's there to throw a wrench in the works when it's needed...

(Still don't think I'd want him as POTUS, but it's encouraging that someone's pushing back.)

All that said, though:

1) The telephone companies will still need to archive all the data;
2) You know full fucking well that the 3-letter agencies will still do as they goddamn please;
3) I'm horrified at the number of folks who were quoted HERE that were just fine with being watched. To wit:

WaPo wrote:...“If you’re not doing anything wrong, what are you worried about?” said Tom Charlton, 64, a retired sales training manager for a tire company, who was first in line at a book-signing with Paul in Davenport. “If this can stop one attack, it’s worth infringing on legal citizens’ rights.”

...

“I don’t want the mall to get bombed because they didn’t get the information they needed,” said Martin, who runs a water-softening business with her husband.

Another Republican, retired preschool teacher Sally Cram, 62, said after leaving a town hall meeting with Sen. Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa) that she supports the NSA program because “I’m a person who believes our government tells us the truth.”

...

“It doesn’t bother me because anybody who says illegal stuff on the phone is flat stupid,” Navy veteran Alan Loomis, 62, said after Santorum’s event. “I got my makeup and my smile on all the time because 90 percent of the places I go, I know I’m on camera . . . I just accept it. I don’t like it, but it’s part of the world now.”


Fuckwits. :(

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Re: WE LOVE BIG BROTHER

Postby Bo_9 » Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:55 am

Those are some very "Orwellian" quotes...
When an old man dies a library burns...

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Re: WE LOVE BIG BROTHER

Postby motorpsycho67 » Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:38 am

Jaeger wrote:
Fuckwits.




Yep.


Stupid , gullible buffoons.
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Re: WE LOVE BIG BROTHER

Postby Bigshankhank » Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:54 pm

Wow, who needs fiction when reality is so fun?

Although I have a hard time believing that with the death of the Patriot Act (and what a masterstroke of spin engineering that name was) the 3-letter guys have already come up with other methods to generate the same data, along with new ways to prevent another "Snowden" event.
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Re: WE LOVE BIG BROTHER

Postby 12ci » Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:59 pm

motorpsycho67 wrote:
Jaeger wrote:
Fuckwits.




Yep.


Stupid , gullible buffoons.


worse, their votes count as much as ours do
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Re: WE LOVE BIG BROTHER

Postby Jaeger » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:39 am

This makes me extremely uncomfortable:

the NYT wrote:...To demonstrate how easy it is to track people without their knowledge, we collected public images of people who worked near Bryant Park (available on their employers’ websites, for the most part) and ran one day of footage through Amazon’s commercial facial recognition service. Our system detected 2,750 faces from a nine-hour period (not necessarily unique people, since a person could be captured in multiple frames). It returned several possible identifications, including one frame matched to a head shot of Richard Madonna, a professor at the SUNY College of Optometry, with an 89 percent similarity score. The total cost: about $60. ...



Full article here: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... ogin-email

Big Brother very much is watching. :shock: :shock: :( :x :yuck:

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Re: WE LOVE BIG BROTHER

Postby DerGolgo » Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:03 pm

Jaeger wrote:Big Brother very much is watching. :shock: :shock: :( :x :yuck:

--Jaeger


And now imagine what happens when big-data services can use other inputs to remove false positives.
"Oh, can't be him, his car just went through a monitored intersection, the insurance box on board is recognizing his driving style. Can't be that one, either, his heartbeat matches what we're seeing on a treadmill in a gym ten miles away. Her, no, she just had a baby the other day, that belly is too flat."
If there were absolutely anything to be afraid of, don't you think I would have worn pants?

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Re: WE LOVE BIG BROTHER

Postby Jaeger » Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:33 pm

Big Brother is watching -- and collecting your DNA without telling you.

NYT wrote:New York City detectives questioning a boy facing a felony charge last year offered him a McDonald’s soda. When the boy left, they took the straw and tested it for his DNA.

Although it did not match evidence found at a crime scene, his DNA was entered into the city’s genetic database. To have it removed, the child’s family had to petition a court and file an appeal, a process that took more than a year. The boy was 12.

The city’s DNA database has grown by nearly 29 percent over the last two years, and now has 82,473 genetic profiles, becoming a potentially potent tool for law enforcement but one that operates with little if any oversight. ...


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/15/nyre ... abase.html

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Re: WE LOVE BIG BROTHER

Postby DerGolgo » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:47 am

Jaeger wrote:Big Brother is watching -- and collecting your DNA without telling you.

...

--Jaeger


**engage reactionary jackass mode**
Oh, yeah, but he was arrested, right, so he had to have done something, so it's his own damn fault! Damn that court for letting him off, he deserved to have his DNA collected, the cops were doing the only responsible thing! We must archive the DNA of all who might do a crime, will nobody think of the children?!!?
**disengage reactionary jackass mode and vomit continuously for at least five minutes**

Yeah, that's where I see trouble in future.
See, at some point, for-profit health insurers will notice that they could adjust premiums based on genetic indicators. You many have a genetic predisposition for disease X... but if you don't, you can now save money on your premiums! Just give us your DNA!
DNA sequencing and analysis isn't getting more expensive. As soon as doing it and rooting out people with genetic disease markers or some such becomes more economical than not doing it. Emergency rooms might collect DNA as standard procedure, and get it sequenced without anyone requesting it, just so that the doctors will have the information on hand should they need it. The liability insurance might demand as much, to ensure nothing is overlooked, and consenting to the test will not be optional. If the patient is even conscious to sign the terms of service. Liability insurance will get big on cheap DNA testing. Besides finding genetic markers for things that might lead their customers into a situation of being liable, epigenetic markers might indicate "problematic" behavior of an individual.
Your most recent DNA test has revealed epigenetic markers that indicate an undisclosed drinking habit. Please submit blood and hair samples for additional testing. If you do not cooperate, or the drinking habit is confirmed, your policy will be void.
Expect to see the majority of the populace getting their DNA put on file someplace.

I very much doubt that, eventually, it will take a warrant to run crime-scene DNA through those databases. Remember those wiretaps where the intelligence officers had 72 hours to apply for a warrant after they began listening in?
And when DNA sequencing becomes so cheap, someone will figure out a way to make DNA collection at crime scene cheap enough, too. Anyone who isn't in the databases yet will get the choice of getting tested and recorded... or spending the next three days in the lockup, since they can't be ruled out as a suspect from all the different sets of DNA found at the scene of that break-in.

Yes, I do think they will eventually take DNA samples at something as mundane as a break-in. Why wouldn't they, if it's cheap enough?
The authority of the authorities relies on the perception that this authority is enforced. Any excuse to get people in line with having their everything recorded and cross-referenced will do so long as it's cheap enough. And who wouldn't give their DNA sample if it means ruling them out for the break-in at their friends' house? Do they have something to hide?
Not quite 20 years ago, when DNA testing was way more expensive than it is today, by orders of magnitude afaik. Around the university I attended, a serial rapist was assaulting women. Armed with a description that matched what any of the victims who had seen anything saw, the cops went around to collect swabs from the male population of the larger surrounding area around the university, figuring the rapist probably lived around there. Description was (translating) ~5'5" mid 40s caucasian, pudgy, short dark hair, big stache.
Friend of mine. ~22 at the time, 6', skinny, blond dreadlocks down to his shoulders, but always well shaven. Cops knocked on his door to get a swab. Like they also took from the 6'6" African exchange student next door, fella black as night and in his 20s. My friend refused to cooperate, on the principle that he was already ruled out from the suspect pool.
The cops threatened him they would tell his neighbors, and would make it sound like he wasn't just a serious suspect in the serial rapist case, but might also be involved in child pornography. My friend went to court to fight this, over some years, went all the way to our highest court. And he lost.
That was when DNA testing was an expensive invasion of privacy, something unusual and creepy.
Now think what it will be like when most people are habituated to giving cheap DNA samples for anything from medical diagnostics to insurance purposes to whatever. Anyone not in the database will be suspect even if they cooperate immediately and without protest the very first time the cops as for a sample. After all, the only people who's DNA isn't in the database will be criminals who haven't been caught yet, right?

It won't take violence to get all our DNA into databases, nor any of the other biometric or habitual data.
It will take economics, and simple human suspicion of "the other".
Used to be, around society's statistical mid-section, if your prints were on file, even if you were never even arrested, let alone charged with a crime, it would have made you suspect in the eyes of most people who find out about it.
It will be that, if you aren't on file, you will be suspect. The only way not to be one file, why, he can't be behaving normally!
It won't even take any active resistance against being sampled and databased.
If there were absolutely anything to be afraid of, don't you think I would have worn pants?

I said I have a big stick.
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