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COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

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Jaeger
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Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by Jaeger » Tue May 18, 2021 9:30 am

I won't post the whole thing in here as it's rather long, but this fellow goes into depth regarding the shakeup at CDC that really caused the sudden shift in policy vis-à-vis mask wearing.

https://www.outsidethebeltway.com/cdc-s ... mask-order

Still, he does a nice job of summing it up:
OTB wrote: ...
While I’m generally speaking a “follow the science” guy on this, managing a pandemic is inherently political. Epidemiologists, immunologists, virologists, and other medical specialists have unique expertise and policymakers ought to weigh their advice heavily. But they’re not experts in economics, mental health, and so many other things that must factor into decisions like when and under what conditions people must lock down, when masks must be worn, what capacity businesses may be at, who gets priority in vaccine distribution, and so many other decisions. They’re inherently political calls that we elect politicians to make in accordance with applicable conditions—which include the public mood and issues of political culture.

It will come as no surprise to regular readers that I did not trust the Trump administration to make these judgments. Ditto many Republican governors and mayors. (But not just Republicans; Andrew Cuomo and Gavin Newsome haven’t exactly covered themselves in glory, either.) I think President Biden is an honorable man and have no reason to think otherwise of Dr. Walensky. But that doesn’t mean that People Are Tired of This Shit isn’t a major factor in the calculus to change the guidelines.

We went from clearly being too slow to being abrupt. I think the new guidelines are right. But there should almost certainly have been more lead time for state and local officials and businesses to prepare. Because, post-announcement, the momentum shifted almost instantaneously. People like me, who dutifully wore their masks in support of the community goals of flattening the curve and follow-on goals and got vaccinated as soon as our turn came, were still begrudgingly masking because we understood that there was no way for others to know whether we were vaccinated. But the sudden green light means that I’m now more than a little annoyed if a store proclaims that I need to mask up despite the CDC, Commonwealth of Virginia, and Defense Department all telling me I don’t.
Having just come back from the grocery store in roughly the same area where this guy lives, I'll say that most stores still have "masks on" signs up front, and most everybody I saw was complying. I certainly did considering my neighbor 2 doors down is still recovering from a bout with The Shit, I know it's still roaming around the area -- though she probably picked it up traveling to a dance competition in Pittsburgh a month or so ago.

Nevertheless, I'm still looking forward to walking into a retail establishment sans mask at some point in the foreseeable future. At the very least skipping the formality of pulling it up while passing people on the sidewalk will be nice. I'm glad I don't live in NYC. :mrgreen:

--Jaeger


Bigshankhank wrote:The world is a fucking wreck, but there is still sunshine in some places. Go outside and look for it.
<<NEUTIQUAM ERRO>>
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motorpsycho67
Double-dip Diogenes
Location: City of Angels

Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by motorpsycho67 » Wed May 19, 2021 12:24 am

OTB wrote: ...
But the sudden green light means that I’m now more than a little annoyed if a store proclaims that I need to mask up despite the CDC, Commonwealth of Virginia, and Defense Department all telling me I don’t.

This just about negates everything he said previously.


Common sense trumps the government....
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DerGolgo
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Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by DerGolgo » Wed May 19, 2021 3:59 am

motorpsycho67 wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 12:24 am
This just about negates everything he said previously.


Common sense trumps the government....
I just realized I went on a little rant re government.
I'm not sure how you meant what you said there, @motorpsycho67, so please don't feel offended if I misinterpreted snark as sincerity. Or vice versa.

Short version of my rant: anyone who accepts that it's a good idea that government meat inspectors enforce regulations, because botulism bad, has really no excuse why government shouldn't enforce regulations for public hygiene because covid bad.
That doesn't mean any regulation must always be good and be obeyed. But when the experts study the subject and suggest what should be done to stop the pandemic and save lives? Yeah, that one. Rejecting that one is inexcusable for anyone who hasn't died of botulism recently.
Common Sense vs. Government, the LONG version
Show
The problem with common sense is that it is uncommon. Unless they are all parroting some social leader, influencer, news outlet, most people will barely agree what common sense tells them they should do if they touch a hot stove.

Government is as good as people demand it be, and as good as people let it be. Decisions get made by those who show up.
Who shows up when the masses are busy working three jobs to just put food on the table? Who shows up when billionaire-owned mass media tells its audience that government bad, shouts down anyone who disagrees, will only report on government misdeeds or incompetence, and on how everybody only ever has negative experiences when dealing with government?
Who will show up when many feel that they should have only horrible experiences when dealing with government, because the people their hind-brain herd-instincts tell them they should listen to have taught them as much, and that anyone who disagrees must be any number of things, like stupid, a liar, a fraud, an attention whore, a momma's boy, whatever?
Who shows up when a society has spent decades or centuries teaching itself that government bad?

People who can't get enough of the refreshing taste of billionaire boot. People who never even question that laws should be written by lobbyists, that the only expert opinions should come from industry, rather than scientists or (horror!) the people, that the opinions and interests of campaign donors are the only opinions and interests that really matter. After all, money is speech, and if the masses wanted to say something, they could just pool their money...

Government has to take care of shit like enforcing hygiene measures during a pandemic because nobody else will. Or can. Rule .303 is one of the terms some use to describe such a situation.
Who questions that government meat inspectors are a good thing? But shouldn't the private sector and common sense be the better solution to protecting people from botulism, or from the whole catalog of other meat-borne infections? I experienced how the private sector and common sense take care of that. I had diarrhea coming out of my mouth.

When government regulation fails, it's rarely because the people working in government, or the whole concept of government, can only be incompetent.
When government regulations fail, it's usually because the regulations aren't written by experts, with a single purpose. But by lobbyists, industry representatives, and any number of detestables lurking in the shadows of government, doing political dealing and wheeling and backhanding.
Or it is because of straight up violations by private sector entities who either figure their common sense is good enough, or that they don't need no meddlin' government telling them how to do their business. Or who need to satisfy the expectations of their corporate superior who explicitly don't want to be told about how many laws middle management must break to achieve that (I'm betting dollars to donuts that's how Dieselgate happened). Or who just do the numbers, extra profits vs. fines if caught and find that, oopsie, whoever wrote that regulation didn't math.

Average life expectancy didn't crack 40 years until the late 19th century. One of the reason more people didn't keel over dead from botulism was that industrial laborers couldn't afford to eat much meat.
Even if an infection from tainted meat didn't kill someone outright, it wouldn't do a person's overall health many favors. Particularly in an era when surgeons washing their hands was still relatively new technology.

In the United States, the first federal law requiring meat inspections was passed in 1890.
Food hygiene, eating tainted or spoiled things becoming the exception, has been (to my knowledge) a critical factor in extending life expectancy so far, even poor people can, barring accidents or whatever, expect to reach retirement age. Perhaps they cannot expect to actually ever retire, but they'll get old enough.

Common sense tells plenty of people that, so long as they cook it to 250°F for three minutes, that pork chop won't harm nobody.
But many don't have the common sense to wash their hands after handling the raw meat and before they touch, say, any of the other food items they are preparing.
Common sense seems to be telling a lot of people that, if they aren't sick, there's no reason they should wear a mask to protect others. Asymptomatic? What's that?

If the past few centuries of scientific progress have demonstrated one thing, it is that, even when people uncommonly agree on what common sense is telling them. More often than not, it's wrong.
Common sense tells most people that, if you just eat less food, you will loose weight. While medicine has demonstrated the body's amazing ability to reduce its energy consumption, preserving calories, something that evolved to get us through the lean months.
Common sense tells many people that someone poor, only able to buy cheap shit (shoes, clothes, etc.), spends less money than a wealthy person, who buys more expensive shit. The poverty trap, meanwhile, is a well documented phenomenon - being poor is expensive.
There are very, very few aspects of either relativity or quantum physics that even get near anything resembling what most people might accept is common sense.

The list of examples is endless. It's not just hard science that disagrees with it. When someone does a person an unprompted favor, that second person's common sense likely tells them the first person wants something from them. While con artists, and successful salespeople, know the way in is to make the mark do them a little favor - the sunk cost fallacy is the best way to describe what motivates the mark going forward in the interaction.
motorpsycho67 wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 12:24 am
OTB wrote: ...
But the sudden green light means that I’m now more than a little annoyed if a store proclaims that I need to mask up despite the CDC, Commonwealth of Virginia, and Defense Department all telling me I don’t.
Me, I would suggest it's common sense that everybody keeps wearing masks when stepping outside their abode, that they are careful when touching surfaces or objects anybody else has handled (perhaps not by using multiple layers of gloves and disinfectant by the gallon as I do, but a little care), that people don't touch their face unless they have thoroughly washed/disinfected their hands, that people keep their distance to anyone not part of their household.
I should think it's common sense to keep the hygiene measures up until the pandemic has finally and actually petered out.
I also think that it's common sense people get fucking vaccinated - and that patents protecting the vaccines, all of them, are suspended, so that developing countries can actually acquire the stuff for their populations.
I really should think it's common sense that, if the billions of people who don't have the means to acquire the vaccination really don't get vaccinated, the pandemic will not go away. We in the developed nations will not be safe, even if we vaccinate every last person in Europe, North America, etc.

Actually, fuckit, no, that's not just common sense.
The developed nations couldn't feel safe from smallpox until it was wiped out in the developing nations, too.
It was finally wiped out - but that took more than just vaccinating everyone in the developed world. It took a great effort of tracking down every last reservoir of smallpox in human populations to get it gone. That is historic fact.
If we want to get rid of Covid, squeezing the developing nations for money they don't have will at best slow down the effort. Giving the virus more time to mutate, giving it opportunity to come back at us. At worst, it will keep ravaging vast swathes of the world, killing millions - and mutating even more and even quicker and coming back at us.
In a situation of extraordinary danger to the entire species, intellectual property rights must take a back seat.The developed nations should either suspend those patents until such a time as the virus is no longer endemic anywhere in the world, or should buy them under eminent domain and then put them into the public domain.
If there were absolutely anything to be afraid of, don't you think I would have worn pants?

I said I have a big stick.

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Jaeger
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Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by Jaeger » Wed May 19, 2021 6:47 am

motorpsycho67 wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 12:24 am
OTB wrote: ...
But the sudden green light means that I’m now more than a little annoyed if a store proclaims that I need to mask up despite the CDC, Commonwealth of Virginia, and Defense Department all telling me I don’t.

This just about negates everything he said previously.


Common sense trumps the government....
No, he's entitled to being annoyed. It's absolutely normal to get aggravated by conflicting or contradictory instructions, especially after more than a year of this shit (never mind the prior 3 years of Jackass...)

Additionally -- and I don't know whether you read the whole article, which is long and confusing and largely deals with the internal politics of CDC -- it sounds like at least some scientists within CDC genuinely think that being vaccinated is sufficient protection, and thus if you have the shot you don't need a mask.

The only reason they didn't release the information before was because the White House said not to due to politics, not science.

I don't really know whether it's wise to lift the mask mandate or not. It seems premature to me, but then again there were only 31 new COVID cases in my county of >1.1 million people yesterday. Not fantastic, but not catastrophic either. I'm not an epidemiologist, I dunno.

Nevertheless, were I a restaurant owner I imagine I'd be desperate to get people back into my dining room (or hotel, or amusement park, or whatever). The economics of all this do matter, especially in a country where one's healthcare is tied to employment. :Jeez:

Y'know all those jokes about "stupidity should be painful"? We're going to see lots of examples of that.

--Jaeger
Bigshankhank wrote:The world is a fucking wreck, but there is still sunshine in some places. Go outside and look for it.
<<NEUTIQUAM ERRO>>
2018 Indian Scout -- "Lilah"

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DerGolgo
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Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by DerGolgo » Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:21 am

Jab #2, day 2 (or is it day 1? I got it yesterday, so do your own math).

Ouch.
Same flu-like joint pain and general misery as last time.
Judging by these effects, my immune system is responding as it should, which make a day of misery worth it. Or two days (one for each jab).
If there were absolutely anything to be afraid of, don't you think I would have worn pants?

I said I have a big stick.

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Pintgudge
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Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by Pintgudge » Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:02 am

I am glad to hear this. I am all shotted up.
It is confusing about masking, Dr. Fauchi said you don't need masks with other vaxed people, or outside, but to protect unvaxed, you should mask inside. But, no, major supermarkets are saying that if you are fully vaxed you don't need to mask, and we're just going to trust you on that!
They think I have trust!!?!!??!!!
If man is fit to be governed, is any man fit to govern?

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motorpsycho67
Double-dip Diogenes
Location: City of Angels

Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by motorpsycho67 » Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:53 pm

They can argue back and forth all they want.


Just wear your mask until YOU feel it's safe not to.
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DerGolgo
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Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by DerGolgo » Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:09 pm

motorpsycho67 wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:53 pm
Just wear your mask until YOU feel it's safe not to.
Oh noes! But Tucker Carlson says you shouldn't wear it if it makes someone else uncomfortable, because... freedom?
If there were absolutely anything to be afraid of, don't you think I would have worn pants?

I said I have a big stick.

motorpsycho67
Double-dip Diogenes
Location: City of Angels

Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by motorpsycho67 » Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:27 am

DerGolgo wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:09 pm

But Tucker Carlson says....

Are you under the impression I'm an idiot?
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DerGolgo
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Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by DerGolgo » Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:06 pm

motorpsycho67 wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:27 am
Are you under the impression I'm an idiot?
I was under the impression that it is hilarious that this particular smear of a person, someone who rails against "SJWs" so loud I hear it over here, someone who seemingly can't open his mouth without complaining how everybody is getting offended by everything these days (except to declare how offensive anything not tailored to straight, white, cis men is by its very existence, yes, he can open his mouth for that).
That he should not just suggest his viewers demand other people take their masks off. But that they should explicitly declare they make this demand because the other person wearing a mask is making them feel uncomfortable.

Sorry, I think that is fucking hilarious. And I thought this was thew moment to share it.

Also, I am now seriously considering whipping up some [sarcasm] tags Not sure what those should do, but this sort of thing, for this sort of thing:

Code: Select all

[sarcasm]Oh noes! But Tucker Carlson says you shouldn't wear it if it makes someone else uncomfortable, because... freedom?[/sarcasm]
If there were absolutely anything to be afraid of, don't you think I would have worn pants?

I said I have a big stick.

motorpsycho67
Double-dip Diogenes
Location: City of Angels

Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by motorpsycho67 » Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:09 pm

It just seems odd that anyone here would even bother joking about that clown.
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DerGolgo
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Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by DerGolgo » Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:29 am

We must relearn living, I guess.

Friend of mine is already twice vaccinated. Second jab more than a week ago, so he is protected. New cases/100k have dropped to the low 20s in his area, below 20 where I live.
He had been a fairly fearless traveler throughout most of the pandemic. On multiple occasions, I had had to plead with him not to go on a 4 hour train ride just to visit me. When the new cases were knocking on 100.
The other day, he either took the train, or tried to take the train, just a short trip to see his mum. And that train was not quite as packed as in ye olden days, but orders of magnitude more packed than during the height of the 'demic, when on that line (so he tells me), the only other people in the car beside him were the conductors/train attendants.
Now he is terrified of any train journey, still fearing infection, fearing it more on the train now that it's filling up again.

Me, I've finally gotten used to no longer gloving up when I go outside. I still vigorously disinfect my hands and my groceries, and I don't think I'll stop any time soon.

I wonder now, how long will the plastic curtains between the checkout lines at the grocery store remain? The tapes on the sidewalk outside shops and doctors' offices, that are supposed to indicate minimum distances?

And what about rents?
How many people will not revert to going to the office every morning, now that their employers have found they can save on rent? What are rents gonna do when all that office space frees up? In recent years, many retail spaces have become offices, for tax attorneys, dentists, all kinds of stuff, what with bricks-and-mortar retail already dying out.
What little unused real estate there is left in most cities here, it usually will have been handed around in a speculator circle-jerk for decades. When finally somebody does build on it, if zoning allows, it'll be office or retail space, or "doctor houses", buildings specifically laid out to be a concentration of medical practices. Apartments, places for people to live? What for?
And now, all that office space freeing up, while retail space won't get any more crowded, either.

A lot of office space, including doctors' offices, is squeezed into buildings that, from the outside and in the stairwell, look no different from apartment buildings. I had to change my dentist once, because my regular guy was not accessible with crutches. So there's potentially plenty of space that could be converted to residential space.

So on the one hand, a lot of space that is perfect for conversion into apartments might free up, and rents might go down.
Or, what with working from the home office, and no longer commuting (much), many people might be willing to pay more rent for more space, driving rents up again?
If there were absolutely anything to be afraid of, don't you think I would have worn pants?

I said I have a big stick.

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boz
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Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by boz » Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:39 am

New York has dropped mask mandates and occupancy restrictions for restaurants and bars. Most bars now are "back to normal" and everyone's just hanging out and drinking. [CW: kissing] I made out with someone in a bar a week ago and the whole experience kinda blew my mind. I've been single since Dec '19 and gotta say that was a truly "holy shit it's been so long" moment. Interesting times.

It took a solid week to feel comfortable being in public without a mask and it's funny how often I automatically put one on before standing up or standing on line at a cart. It reminds me of how I'd push my non-existent glasses up my nose for years after I lasered them off my face.

Stoked to see some of you at D00M and I'm curious to see how things are in Germany - I'll be in Berlin late August and hope the rollout is finally figured out before then!
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red
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Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by red » Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:46 am

I've been to a few stores without a mask and it definitely feels awkward! We've begun taking the kids more places, but they stay masked. It's damn nice to see friends and family again, that's for sure.
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motorpsycho67
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Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by motorpsycho67 » Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:30 pm

I'll continue to wear a mask in public until I deem it safe not to, not the government. As long as there are hundreds of new cases daily, I'll err on the side of caution.
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DerGolgo
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Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by DerGolgo » Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:52 am

motorpsycho67 wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:30 pm
I'll continue to wear a mask in public until I deem it safe not to, not the government. As long as there are hundreds of new cases daily, I'll err on the side of caution.
Ditto.
Problem right now here seems to be that the increasing vaccination rates make more and more people more and more careless.
My friend, whom I mentioned earlier, finally did take a train.
And was mortified.
In a train more packed than any he had taken since the first lockdown, over a year ago, he was apparently more or less the only one still wearing a mask.
Despite the law still mandating masks on any form of public transport, or in train stations, at bus stops, etc. Despite violators still facing a fine of €150 for not masking up.

And what really worries me is the Delta Variant. Aka B1.617.2.
In the UK, where they had begun vaccinating a bit earlier than in the EU, that variant is going around and has reversed the trend of falling indices. The Brits started vaccinating before the EU did, and no fewer than 40% of them have already gotten both jabs.
And yet.
On dw.com, Louisa Wright and Kathrin Wesolowski wrote:The UK had confirmed more than 42,000 cases of the delta variant as of June 9, with an increase of nearly 30,000 reported from June 2-9.
So June 2 would have been at 12,000 cases. Up to 42,000. That's a jump of 250% in just a week.
Sure, early on, when absolute numbers a low, and increase will look big. But I'm not sure that 42,000 qualifies as a low number, in a country of ~68 million people. It's "only" ~0.06% of the whole population. But it's nearly 1% of the totality of Covid infections registered since this mess began (4.46 million, according to the googles).

What appear to be more recent numbers published by the authorities in the UK seem to support my concern.
On Her Majesty's gov.uk, someone wrote:PHE’s weekly COVID-19 variant cases data show that numbers of the Delta (VOC-21APR-02) variant in the UK have risen by 33,630 since last week to a total of 75,953. The most recent data show 99% of sequenced and genotyped cases across the country are the Delta variant.

And the vaccines appear to not work so well against Delta.
On dw.com, Louisa Wright and Kathrin Wesolowski wrote: A PHE study awaiting peer review found that the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 94% effective against hospitalization after one dose and 96% effective against hospitalization after two doses. AstraZeneca was 71% effective after one dose and 92% effective after two.

Efficacy against symptomatic disease from the delta variant for Pfizer-BioNTech was 36% after one dose and 88% after two doses. For AstraZeneca it was 30% after one dose and 67% after two.
A lot of people seem to be in a "Finally! We're through this!" mood. And may not be very receptive to having to maintain hygiene measures, even as more and more people got the jab.
I can already hear the covidiots. Shouting about yet another conspiracy, and how now that "the old lie" didn't work anymore, "they" come up with a new variant, etc., etc.

We are not at the end. We are merely at the beginning of the end.
Evolution by natural selection doesn't stop because someone invents a vaccine or masks up. Rather, that natural selection will then favor whatever mutations allows the virus to keep spreading through a vaccinated population, or despite masks and hygiene measures.
I'm not saying those measures, the masks, or vaccination, are pointless, useless, or some other covidiot shite.
I'm saying that, whatever we do, the virus will adapt. And if we stop doing it, it will likely hit us worse than its predecessor variants.

We must remain vigilant until the pandemic has burnt itself out, or until it is overrun by a new mutation that is not dangerous (yes, that happens sometimes - natural selection favors reproduction, not lethality).
If there were absolutely anything to be afraid of, don't you think I would have worn pants?

I said I have a big stick.

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red
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Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by red » Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:58 am

Well... that didn't take long. 3rd week into the school year, and my oldest is on quarantine (only 2 days left, i'm a lazy poster). Thankfully, she's been asymptomatic. She's really good about wearing her mask, which are required at the whole school system, even down to Pre-K where my youngest is. Man, the kids vaccine needs to get moving!
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Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by Bigshankhank » Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:53 am

Good luck Red. Next door neighbors have 3 school age kids, found out on Thursday that one of them brought it home and the entire family is now COVID +. Mom & Dad and the oldest are all vaxxed, apparently the 10 year old is getting the worst of it. You know how on the news you keep hearing about school districts in FL that are defying our idiot governor and requiring full-time masking in order to protect students and families? Yeah, our local school district isn't doing that, and this is the result.
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Jaeger
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Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by Jaeger » Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:40 am

Bigshankhank wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:53 am
Good luck Red.
Ditto. I'm thankful to be here in Vax-friendly and mask-friendly NoVA. Sometimes living in the DC bubble has advantages. Even the Trumpies around here are generally masked up.
Bigshankhank wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:53 am
Next door neighbors have 3 school age kids, ... [SNIP] ..protect students and families? Yeah, our local school district isn't doing that, and this is the result.
Image

See above re: "Happy to be in the bubble." That your shitwit Gub'ner has LEGISLATED that folks can't require masks? Uuuuhhh... I believe I heard that was recently (yesterday?) shot down as being un-Constitutional, yes? If so the various county school districts can start masking up. There's still too goddamn much lag, tho. :(

I don't like the fucking masks either but it's a matter of being thoughtful and fucking polite when quarters get too close with strangers. To me it's Golden Rule shit. "I don't want your fuckin' cooties and you may not want mine."

And the sooner we can choke this goddamn COVID thing to death the sooner we can get back to licking strangers in the street with abandon, right? :mrgreen:

--Jaeger
Bigshankhank wrote:The world is a fucking wreck, but there is still sunshine in some places. Go outside and look for it.
<<NEUTIQUAM ERRO>>
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DerGolgo
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Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by DerGolgo » Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:59 am

Jaeger wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:40 am
Bigshankhank wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:53 am
Good luck Red.
Ditto.
Tritto. Be safe, y'all.

Over here, fucking Delta Variant has pushed the infections/100k over 7 previous days to ~140 for the last couple of days.
It was 3 on July 6 and 7th. Not "3.something". A solid 3, no somethings, for two consecutive days.

They are still/again debating making vaccines mandatory for everyone who can get it.
Frankly, that is not something I could tolerate. Because of our history, and that history being why patient consent was formalized into legal principle in Nuremberg, in 1947.
I got pointed at the Nuremberg Code by someone who also lamented "6,000 to 12,000 vaccine deaths". Scroll way down if you keep seeing that number yourself and you legit would like to know.
So, forging medical documents, how unethical is that really...
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Some people, like certain medical professionals, must get certain vaccinations, always did. What with not killing immunosuppressed patients to death being kinda important.
Turns out you don't actually have to be smart to finish medical school.
Some people, like certain medical professionals, also refuse the 'rona jab. For the same bullshit reasons you hear from covidiots everywhere.
And some, obviously, make a racket of it. Going rate for a mask-exemption seems to be €50, or that's what some dermatologist working at a hospital was asking for, making an unprompted offer.

One step up form that, fake vaccination entry in the yellow WHO booklet. I'm conflicted what to feel about those.
On the one hand, the yellow booklet is an official document, important for international travel, it is not to be fucked with.
On the other hand, such fakes began surfacing before the vaccines had even begun shipping - so no little stickers off of the vial. Only handwriting in its place (and you know doctors' handwriting).
That is to say, these great artistes would create a forgery that wouldn't fool another forgery, when that other forgery isn't a forgery of a trained inspector of yellow booklets, but a forgery of a bus ticket. Weekend rate. That is wet.

I'm definitely certain the handwritten note wouldn't have fooled any pharmacists into handing over the digital vaccination certificate.
And that's not a funny. You get a printout of a QR code, one per jab. You scan those into your phone to show off when required, like a boarding pass.
Those QR codes are for 3G. I was shooting for 5G, but in a few places, they are already dialing it back to 2G. The idea being to do x, you need at least one G.
Genesen (recovered, like from the infection)
Geimpft (vaccinated)
Geprüft (freshly tested, negative being implied).
Of course, masks are still mandated in most places they had been mandated over the last year.
Dropping some Gs
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The G that is getting dropped is the testing, the quick testing specifically. Places that want at least one G, and with a lot of foot traffic, will have a testing station. Anyone can walk in and get their brain stabbed as often as they like.
That shit is both expensive (~€60/stab), and appears unreliable. Real world, they are getting something like 40% false readings from quick-tests. Positive, negative, no matter when it's about as good as a coin flip (real coins don't do 50/50).
On top of it all, those test-centers are in many places run by private contractors. Obviously.
And look at that. At least one such contractor does hilarious little jokes. Like billing for two or three times as many tests as they are actually doing. Because private enterprise makes everything more cost efficient!

Some jurisdictions/locales, they are mandating 2,5G (we use a , to indicate the decimal, and I' m not translating! :P ). The quick-test is unacceptable, but the PCR, if it's fresh enough, is okay.
And unless a physician orders it, you can bet a PCR test is expensive and out of pocket.
In other news, Nena is a covidiot.
Yes, 99 Red Balloons Nena.

She has spent the last few months publishing covidiot bullshit on her social media.
Like many, I had thought she was just trying to desperately claw herself some relevance, not quite drawing the crowds she used to when appearing at hardware-store openings and stuff.
But she is going above and beyond the call of irrelevance.
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She recently did an open-air concert. Part of the conditions the local authorities had put in place was that the audience had to be broken up in parties attending together, and each party would get a "box". Little rectangles, demarcated by stacked drinks-crates (soda, beer, it was not specified, but emptiness was implied). Effectively walled in, so no "Oh, I didn't even notice I crossed the line... and that I ran another 200 meters...".
Nena didn't like, and she told her audience to "break out of their cages" or some such bs, to "be free" and party with her. Right at the stage, all together. She said it explicitly, and repeatedly.
She had to repeat herself because her boyfriend/producer isn't quite as dense as she is and kept walking on stage, telling people about the conditions they had to meet, or they might get in trouble, the concert might be ended by the cops.
I think she finished her set, but no encore. The cops drew the line at an encore.

And just the other day, cops were called in about a rowdy party, maskless morons living it up.
Among known anti-vaxxers and Q-anon extremists, who did they find? Of course, Nena. Since it was a private event, on private property, just having the maskless party was no offense in that jurisdiction. But there is an investigation, ostensibly.
I'm pretty sure the latter is only because the covidiots and far-right Q-anon jackoffs didn't invite their BFFs from the local fuzz.
Pointing out that Nena is a covidiot naturally got me condemned as a "obedient little nazi". Yes, FB, obviously. Specifically by someone who had first asked me what's wrong with her being a covidiot, and upon my reply, had begun ranting, apropos of nothing, about how tens of thousands of unvaccinated mexicans were bringing the diseases over the southern border, and that requiring them to wear a mask or show ID was illegal, and so on.
The obvious crap from a humanitarian, on the hunt for "obedient little nazis".

That same conversation, I was informed about 6,000 to 12,000 vaccination deaths that "the media" is hiding.
I had the time, so I googled. Ended up on Politifact.
Show
That number is from the CDC website, specifically from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, VAERS.
The deaths reported through VAERS recently were at 12,000. But then became 6,000.
Obviously, the morolatives* claim that deaths are being hidden ("only 6,000 deaths" is more conducive to the great conspiracy than 12,000 is beyond me).
According to politifact, meanwhile, whoever runs that website had accidentally put in the worldwide deaths reported through VAERS, when the website should have shown only US deaths.
Why is there even a worldwide number? Is VAERS a WHO thing?

No. But it is a thing where anyone can report "adverse events". Literally anyone. Me included.
Verification of credentials? Pathology reports? So much as a death certificate?
Nope. VAERS was created in the 1980s, when sending a fax cost real money, so false reports may have been unlikely.
But it seems to have been maintained by someone at least as morolative* as the covidiots who figure the vaccine makes them magnetic because it has "graphene oxide" in it (hint: even if the vial was full of magnetized graphene oxide - I'm pretty confident that the IRON IN THE HUMAN BLOODSTREAM will do more to make someone magnetic than a few CCs of that stuff).

So if someone throws those numbers at you, or that the CDC somehow halved the death toll, etc., etc., you can tell them to shut up, because citing Wikiconservapedia in a scientific paper is more solid than citing VAERS.
Idiocy without end.
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That whole conversation about Nena was in a group dedicated to "Atompunk", and I guess someone thought a 1980s pop-star who's great hit was about nuclear armageddon was an appropriate topic of discussion.
Obviously, some rationals pointed out that 99 Red Balloons was a typical example of 1980s neo-marxism. And when challenged, wouldn't justify that description, as usual.

I wasn't the only one to point out that she's a covidiot these days (it's a large group), and I guess the massive flame-war that errupted between covidiots and persons living in reality is what got the whole business deleted by admins.

The numbsicle who had lamented the 6,000 to 12,000 deaths had also informed me that he personally knew two people who got the 'rona after having been vaccinated, one of whom a US Marine who swore that "HCQ saved his life". Turns out some of those morolatives* still haven't graduated to Invermectin.
Oh, and it's all a big conspiracy - Fauci himself had published a paper, showing that most Spanish Flu deaths were actually from bacterial pneumonia - and they tested masks after children wore them for a day. Full of bacteria! They want to murder by mask!!
There is so much wrong with this bullshit...
I had thought that, once enough people had gotten the jab, once even one particularly obstinate person I know had gotten the jab, sanity might break out. Or the morolatives* would at least find other fairytales to make themselves feel embiggened.
Yes, yes, foolish, foolish. I keep trying to loose all faith in humanity, but I just can't. Maybe it's the brain-damage, scar-tissue in the cynicism-area of the frontal lobe?

*I wanna test drive this, nothing about relatives. I'm thinking something along the lines of "superlative" or "hyperlative". But rather than indicating bigger or biggest, it should indicated "willfully dumber" or "willfully dumbest". In this specific case, I think "willfully dumber" should apply.
@Jaeger, you're our cunning linguist. Suggestions?
If there were absolutely anything to be afraid of, don't you think I would have worn pants?

I said I have a big stick.

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Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by red » Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:27 pm

My oldest is off quarantine, so far so good. She gets to go back to regular school tomorrow, much to her disappointment and my wife's relief. E-learning is fucking terrible. Every parent I've talked to said their kids act like morons at home, plus the software (at least for our school sys) is awful. The UI/E (user interface/experience) is fucking terrible. We told both kids that when the vaccine is available, they're getting it. Hell, I'm getting close to needing a booster, as my 5G signal strength is starting to drop.

The Wife and I were talking earlier about how nice it would be to get outta this fucking place but the stupid is everywhere.
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Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by Jaeger » Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:04 am

DerGolgo wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:59 am
*I wanna test drive this, nothing about relatives. I'm thinking something along the lines of "superlative" or "hyperlative". But rather than indicating bigger or biggest, it should indicated "willfully dumber" or "willfully dumbest". In this specific case, I think "willfully dumber" should apply.
@Jaeger, you're our cunning linguist. Suggestions?
Superlatively stupid? Spectacularly stupid? Willfully ignorant?

I get what you're digging at, I think -- a label that truly captures the breathtaking foolishness of the anti-vaxxers.

This is why English speakers wind up swearing as I can't think of anything more appropriate than "shitwit" or "shit for brains" or something along those lines. "People who can't do math."

Fuck, I can't even count to 10 any more and _I_ understand the statistics w/r/t vaccine dangers vs. the actual Plague.

--Jaeger
Bigshankhank wrote:The world is a fucking wreck, but there is still sunshine in some places. Go outside and look for it.
<<NEUTIQUAM ERRO>>
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Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by red » Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:28 am

Jaeger wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:04 am
DerGolgo wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:59 am
*I wanna test drive this, nothing about relatives. I'm thinking something along the lines of "superlative" or "hyperlative". But rather than indicating bigger or biggest, it should indicated "willfully dumber" or "willfully dumbest". In this specific case, I think "willfully dumber" should apply.
@Jaeger, you're our cunning linguist. Suggestions?
Superlatively stupid? Spectacularly stupid? Willfully ignorant?

I get what you're digging at, I think -- a label that truly captures the breathtaking foolishness of the anti-vaxxers.

This is why English speakers wind up swearing as I can't think of anything more appropriate than "shitwit" or "shit for brains" or something along those lines. "People who can't do math."

Fuck, I can't even count to 10 any more and _I_ understand the statistics w/r/t vaccine dangers vs. the actual Plague.

--Jaeger

I heard the term "spreadneck", which I think fits.
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Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by motorpsycho67 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:49 pm

red wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:28 am

I heard the term "spreadneck", which I think fits.

That's my current go to for these stunted halfwits.
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Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by DerGolgo » Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:54 am

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/shortage-of-liquid-oxygen-could-impact-space-coast-launches/ar-AANKKcH
someone on msn.com wrote: Shortage of liquid oxygen could impact Space Coast launches
This week, a SpaceX executive said their company is the latest to feel the impact of the liquid oxygen shortage.
...
Liquid oxygen has been in short supply recently as more and more of it is diverted to hospitals to treat COVID-19 patients.
...
Also, they might force y'all to avoid opening the tap at all.
someone on msn.com wrote:In addition to space flights, liquid oxygen is also used to treat water. Last week the cities of Orlando and Winter Park urged residents to cut back on water usage for fear they could run out of clean drinking water.
Keeping in mind: availability of clean drinking water. So much clean water, available so easily, we think nothing of using it to flush the toilet or water our plants. It takes an actual drought and public orders to stop people water their lawn and the rest of their garden with that clean drinking water.

That clean drinking water, that we can use for anything from washing our hands to cooking our meals to washing our laundry to cleaning our homes.
That clean drinking water is a key reason why the people in the developed world have such a crazy life-expectancy, and why epidemics, and pandemics, are so fucking rare, people today can't even grasp the concept of infectious disease spreading out of control

Most of us take clean water as a given, even more so than electricity. Sure, the power may fail. When has the water ever failed?
I can remember that happening like exactly once. And that was after I had gotten a letter notifying me the utility company was fixing some pipes, so no water for two hours or so.

So now. Without a drought. Clean drinking water may get scarce in a few cities. Because some morolative spreadnecks refuse to mask and shit.

Well, I guess they don't actually refuse to shit, quite the opposite. And before getting put on the ventilator, they will use clean drinking water to flush that shit.
If there were absolutely anything to be afraid of, don't you think I would have worn pants?

I said I have a big stick.

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Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by Jaeger » Thu Sep 02, 2021 10:41 am

Well... shit. That didn't take long:
"September 1, 2021

Dear Parent or Guardian:

In cooperation with the Fairfax County Health Department (FCHD), we are informing you that a student or staff member in your child’s classroom has been diagnosed with COVID-19. As directed by the FCHD, Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS) will temporarily pause your child’s participation in in-person learning while the FCHD completes the contact investigation. ... "
We talked to her when she got home and we're pretty convinced this is the school being a bit bonkers. She hasn't talked to the infected kid since last week, and even then briefly wearing masks. Also, she's going for her 2nd Vax shot on Saturday.

I appreciate the school's abundance of caution, it's just a PITA, especially since they haven't quite figured out how they're going to handle instances like these. We're one of the test cases. Yay.

We ain't out of the woods yet, y'all. It's a damnsight better than last year, but... ugh.

--Jaeger
Bigshankhank wrote:The world is a fucking wreck, but there is still sunshine in some places. Go outside and look for it.
<<NEUTIQUAM ERRO>>
2018 Indian Scout -- "Lilah"

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Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by DerGolgo » Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:03 am

Jaeger wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 10:41 am
it's just a PITA,
I know it's inappropriate, but I got this idea, thought it might lighten the mood.

Proposal: this, or a smaller version of it, or perhaps a better photo of the item, to express the ouch in the backside.

Image

I could maybe make it into a button... if there's a very, very small piece of clipart (ah, remember clipart? like you could buy a collection of it on a floppy disk?), it might live with the smileys...
If there were absolutely anything to be afraid of, don't you think I would have worn pants?

I said I have a big stick.

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Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by red » Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:57 am

I like your PITA idea @DerGolgo . Since it's only a small handful of us on here any way, let's go crazy!


How's everyone doing? I'm recovering from a generic plague, not THE plague, with a nasty dry cough. Got tested, and cleared for the RoNA. Been masking it up at home for the past week, trying to keep our oldest from getting whatever it is (that the youngest brought home from school and gave my wife, then me). We went to a big Halloween fest last night and were happy to see them actually enforcing their mask rule indoors, as well as on the hayride.
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Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by DerGolgo » Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:52 am

red wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:57 am
I like your PITA idea @DerGolgo . Since it's only a small handful of us on here any way, let's go crazy!
So you just vonlunteered to find the appropriate piece of clipart, jolly good! Maybe it's on a floppy disk? :mrgreen:
Come to think of it, pita is kinda disk-shaped, and kinda floppy... the plot thickens... :lol:

red wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:57 am
I'm recovering from a generic plague, not THE plague, with a nasty dry cough. Got tested, and cleared for the RoNA. Been masking it up at home for the past week, trying to keep our oldest from getting whatever it is (that the youngest brought home from school and gave my wife, then me).
Jolly good. Not the infection, but the masking. They did document that even in the US, where masking seems to be handled... inconstantly, the numbers of influenza hospitalizations imploded, deaths going down from nearly 200 in the 19/20 season to 1 in the 20/21 season.
If everyone just masked up like you're doing, not just for the Rona but for other crap. Just imagine the sheer number of sick days not taken. I'm sure the economy would regain enough work-time, there should be a national holiday in there.
red wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:57 am
We went to a big Halloween fest last night and were happy to see them actually enforcing their mask rule indoors, as well as on the hayride.
Well, if there is one occasion to insist on masks...
If there were absolutely anything to be afraid of, don't you think I would have worn pants?

I said I have a big stick.

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Re: COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

Post by red » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:37 am

DerGolgo wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:52 am
red wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:57 am
I'm recovering from a generic plague, not THE plague, with a nasty dry cough. Got tested, and cleared for the RoNA. Been masking it up at home for the past week, trying to keep our oldest from getting whatever it is (that the youngest brought home from school and gave my wife, then me).
Jolly good. Not the infection, but the masking. They did document that even in the US, where masking seems to be handled... inconstantly, the numbers of influenza hospitalizations imploded, deaths going down from nearly 200 in the 19/20 season to 1 in the 20/21 season.
If everyone just masked up like you're doing, not just for the Rona but for other crap. Just imagine the sheer number of sick days not taken. I'm sure the economy would regain enough work-time, there should be a national holiday in there.

We (as a family) are definitely keeping masks during cold/flu/rona season from here on out, especially for our kids at school. Last year, when we homeschooled, we didn't have a single illness and it was awesome. It's the polite, and safe thing to do. Getting suck to any level sucks. Hell, I'm still not back to 100%. The cough lingers and my energy level isn't back to normal. Mowing yesterday really zapped my energy.
Proud Survivor From Thread Hole 64 Campaign
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