Secessionists and the like.

[Pattio]

Recently a college classmate of mine who works with statistics created a geo-map of racist tweets relating to the President's reelection. It went pretty far on fb and the blogosphere. I learned an important lesson reading various comments and responses. That lesson is that a lot of people believe that their personal racism is not wrong, but exists as a personal opposition to an equal and competing racism from the-other-side. 'As long as someone else in the world is racist-against-me, what I do is not racism, just a balance.'

[thrasherbill]

But seriously, tell us what the black woman you asked about interracial dating said, because you will be mocked as a prejudicial simpleton till you do.

I'm reading this as you are assuming every black woman I ask will be against inter-racial dating? Thank you for proving that ignorance and bigotry go hand in hand.

[DerGolgo]

hc, even if the majority of black women were opposed to mixed-race dating (can't be all, or there'd be really nothing to be against or it wouldn't concern women), that doesn't justify your bigotry.
You have repeatedly made the point that every man is responsible for themselves and can't blame their problems on others. Fine. YOU are responsible for YOUR own preconceptions. YOU decide to judge others by the color of their skin, YOU presume to decide which couplings are appropriate based on skin colors, that makes YOU a racist. Whether or not black women feel the same way you do, even if it were the absolute majority of them, even if they themselves may be driven by preconception and bigotry, even if all of that were true, YOU make up your own mind, YOU are responsible for YOUR opinions. YOU can't blame your opinions on other's opinions. So even if all black women everywhere (as I said, can't really be all) were opposed to mixed race dating, the opinion YOU espoused that mixed-race dating is not good is still bigoted. Making you a bigot. A racist, to be precise.

[SSCAM]

This thread doesn't belong in The Grinder.

[rc26]

This thread doesn't belong in The Grinder.

I (unintentionally) created a monster. There is but one honorable way out for me. Seppuku. Unless someone wants to grant me a pardon?

[SSCAM]

I (unintentionally) created a monster. There is but one honorable way out for me. Seppuku. Unless someone wants to grant me a pardon?

Sorry buddy... Seppuku is the only way you're getting out of this.

[JoJoLesh]

I (unintentionally) created a monster. There is but one honorable way out for me. Seppuku. Unless someone wants to grant me a pardon?

Sorry buddy... Seppuku is the only way you're getting out of this.

I believe Piccini9 is the holder of the UTMC ritual knife.


ya,we're kinda brutal here

[JoJoLesh]

...Ask a black woman how she feels about the issue and get back to me on the racism charge.

But seriously, tell us what the black woman you asked about interracial dating said, because you will be mocked as a prejudicial simpleton till you do.

I have asked a couple. The answers I received were fairly rewarding if short relationships. Oh, as you have never met me, I am fairly Caucasian.

[BillyName99]

I (unintentionally) created a monster. There is but one honorable way out for me. Seppuku. Unless someone wants to grant me a pardon?

You didn't create a monster, a troll was already hiding in the bushes.

Now put the knife down.

[happycommuter]

So even if all black women everywhere (as I said, can't really be all) were opposed to mixed race dating, the opinion YOU espoused that mixed-race dating is not good is still bigoted. Making you a bigot. A racist, to be precise.

I didn't espouse an opinion. I did not say that I think miscegenation is unkosher. I said it is. I made a statement of fact. It is not normative or it would be a non-issue.

Apparently I'm one of the few people on here that doesn't live in some hippie commune where every progressive idea is universally accepted. I live in the real world, where mixed race couples are still something a bit outside the norm.

Now the reason I asked Pintgrudge to talk to a black woman is twofold. First, I suspect that all your hippie communes are lily white and that is why you are so ignorant in your self-righteousness. Have you considered that there are many non-racist reasons to be against miscegenation? There are, and now I'm stuck explaining a few.
1. Race is not just skin color, but culture. It is common knowledge that, in general, blacks watch totally different television shows than whites, they eat different foods, stuff like that. Unless we're talking about a pair of orphans, families of different cultures will not be that happy with the alien traditions their child is marrying into. The couple very rarely fits seamlessly into social situations.
2. On a tangent, intermarriage destroys both heritages. Jewish mothers round the world know that interfaith marriage is a bigger threat to Judaism than bullets or rockets. Blending is dissolution. Homogeneity does not celebrate diversity, but rather kills it.
3. There are vast inequalities. Many white men seem to have a thing for Asian women*, but it's much harder for the Asian man seeking a white woman. Similarly, more black man have interest in white women than white men for black women. Plundering the 'desirable' sex from a given race is a progressive and beneficial idea?
4. Minorities are the biggest proponents of "sticking to your own kind" as they have the most to lose. Every minority can have a child with whitey and there will still be plenty of whities to breed with each other. The minority group will have essentially lost their bloodline.
5. Mixed race children are known for not really fitting in anywhere growing up, for identity issues. This is unnecessary suffering.

I readily concede that race is essentially a societal construct. Despite obvious difference in appearance, race has no genetic basis, last I heard. But society, as post-racial as it may be, is still a bit defensive about the bedroom and somewhat rightfully so. My apologies if I failed to address anyone's concerns.

*

Spoiler

Show

My hunch is that some of the nerds on here have mail-order brides and that's why their undies are in a bunch. I'm laughing because you resorted to ordering a glorified sex slave from overseas because no woman in your country wanted you. Race has nothing to do with it.

[thrasherbill]

You didn't address this.

How the fuck do you breathe with your head so far up your ass?

Although I wouldn't really call it a concern.

[stiles]

Which ideals would those be? Black people and women not having the right to vote? People of different races not being allowed to marry? Gay people staying in the closet? Separate drinking fountains?

I enjoy debates here because most of the comments are very intelligent. Then there is this lazy calumny (well, except for the fact that I'm not so hot on women voting and I really wish everybody could leave their private sexuality at home... oh, yeah and miscegenation is unkosher too, but I'm cool with blacks voting and sharing public facilities. Anyway, those are preferences, not ideals). The freedoms the Founding Fathers had are substantially greater that what we have left. Stop being an automaton that sees only race, gender and sex. Think of human rights, the stuff in the Bill of Rights.

Hahahaha

"Calumny". The troll brought his thesaurus to class. Hilarious.

You're misusing the word, though:

I can't say anything to injure your reputation here - you do a stunningly fabulous job of that all on your own. Look at your answer, above, and elsewhere. Furthermore, I'm not slandering you by asking you a few simple, direct questions. It's not "so when did you stop beating your wife?".

You amuse me to no end. Thanks for that, the laugh was definitely welcome today.

[DerGolgo]

Apparently I'm one of the few people on here that doesn't live in some hippie commune where every progressive idea is universally accepted. I live in the real world, where mixed race couples are still something a bit outside the norm.

You used NO qualifiers, like "custom dictates" or "unfortunately" or "society acts as though". With the vernacular use of "kosher" it didn't sound like a description of the social norms or religious dictum, but an opinion, something from the heart. You could have clarified earlier, but you wait until the roof is already crashing down, not entirely credible. Which, to my mind, leaves two possibilities: Either you are backpedaling, trying to use semantics to wriggle out of an uncomfortable situation, OR you actually, truly, utterly believe in the statement in question, that it truly describes not just reality but what is desirable for reality (as your further statements show you do seem to believe that). In which case, where this is so much part of your reality, you sir are a true racist. Not a mere agnostic, not a fellow traveler, not even a jerk driven by gut instinct but one with a closed world-view.

1. Race is not just skin color, but culture. It is common knowledge that, in general, blacks watch totally different television shows than whites, they eat different foods, stuff like that. Unless we're talking about a pair of orphans, families of different cultures will not be that happy with the alien traditions their child is marrying into. The couple very rarely fits seamlessly into social situations.

Families may be unhappy, but that often enough happens quite apart from ethnic differences. Many people have preconceptions and a bit of racism. But that is just as wrong, regardless of cultural background or skin color. Love falls where it may. That someone else is wrong doesn't make you right. That two people have different skins doesn't mean they don't relate culturally, and even if they don't, that is not a problem that cannot be overcome. Whether or not to overcome it, whether or not it's worth the effort, is an individual choice, something you usually are very fond of, aren't you?

2. On a tangent, intermarriage destroys both heritages. Jewish mothers round the world know that interfaith marriage is a bigger threat to Judaism than bullets or rockets. Blending is dissolution. Homogeneity does not celebrate diversity, but rather kills it.

See above. Blending is good. For millenia, central Europe was populated by Vandals, Goths, Visigoths, Celts, Picts and others, later came Normans and Saxons and so forth. They could tell each other apart and stuck to their own. Today, we are all caucasian, or European, however you want to describe it. Apart from language, the only differences that remain are where different climate favored different populations, but even that doesn't always work. A cousin of mine, two "lilly white" German parents, was in hospital when a priest visited the ward. Greeted everyone except her, commenting to the others that she wouldn't understand a word, anyway. 20 years earlier, he had baptized her. Which was before a long forgotten Roman and/or Italian in the family lineage, whose genes have also cropped up in others, made his contribution known with brown skin and pitch dark hair.

3. There are vast inequalities. Many white men seem to have a thing for Asian women*, but it's much harder for the Asian man seeking a white woman. Similarly, more black man have interest in white women than white men for black women. Plundering the 'desirable' sex from a given race is a progressive and beneficial idea?

This is so idiotic, it doesn't warrant a reply. But I'll give you one nonetheless. Some people get laid. Some don't. Some get laid with people they consider attractive, some settle for less than that. The true triumph of the individual, attracting a mate. Most of us have to work for it and don't get willing sexual partners thrown before their feet, there is always someone more attractive, more suave, more something or other than you. Accusing someone of "plundering" just because they manage to get laid with someone of another ethnic persuasion? That is beyond everyday racism, quite beyond the little bit of racism described in the Avenue Q song. It's blaming someone else for your problems, it's blaming the success of others for your own lack of success. Pretty cheap and miles away from the usual "self-reliance" cultural ideal you usually espouse.

4. Minorities are the biggest proponents of "sticking to your own kind" as they have the most to lose. Every minority can have a child with whitey and there will still be plenty of whities to breed with each other. The minority group will have essentially lost their bloodline.

Whether or not a member of a minority wants to preserve some bloodline or other, even accepting missing out on what might be the perfect relationship and love of their life, is their decision. It is not merely up to them to make up their mind, judging them when you have (literally) no skin in the game? Pretty fucking lame some would say, pretty fucking presumptuous I would say, pretty fucking insulting others might say.

5. Mixed race children are known for not really fitting in anywhere growing up, for identity issues. This is unnecessary suffering.

True, I had a classmate with a Filipino mother and German father who did, at one point, describe feeling torn. I had another classmate with a Peruvian mother who, unlike the other classmate, didn't even look remotely ethnically German. I don't recall him ever mentioning any problem or being one of the outcasts in the schoolyard. But you know what? Apart from the fact that the parent's handling of the cultural differences is quite important, that other people's desire to treat them based on preconceptions rather than getting to know them is the real problem, apart from all of that. No one was talking about kids before. You say people shouldn't date because one day they might have a kid that may, or may not, have troubles? You should decide who should have kids and who shouldn't, should you? That a person should rather not be born than grow up with more problems than the average kid? That's beyond mere racism, that's downright on the way to a brown shirt and armband.

I readily concede that race is essentially a societal construct. Despite obvious difference in appearance, race has no genetic basis, last I heard. But society, as post-racial as it may be, is still a bit defensive about the bedroom and somewhat rightfully so. My apologies if I failed to address anyone's concerns.

You are either spectacularly (and unusually) unable to express yourself well, or you are apparently, by your statements and your defensive stance and your history in this discussion, in favor of these social norms and preconceptions. Your statements went quite far beyond the bedroom, but apart from that, no social norm justifies you not making up your own mind about this sort of thing. You have thus far said nothing to convince me that you do not favor the social injustices that mixed-race couples and their children face.

My hunch is that some of the nerds on here have mail-order brides and that's why their undies are in a bunch. I'm laughing because you resorted to ordering a glorified sex slave from overseas because no woman in your country wanted you. Race has nothing to do with it.

You hid this in a spoiler tag. What,are you afraid to speak the truth to power? You're laughing because something someone had to resort to? In the first sentence, you state you have a hunch while, in the second sentence, you state it as though fact. Quite apart from the insulting nature of your statement, this make you sound like you have lost most tethers to reality. Or what gives you this phenomenal insight into the lives of people, most of whom you've never met in person, who are under no obligation to share details of their private lives with you? Someone disagrees with you, points out to you how you have misbehaved, and you ride off into this, quite frankly, infantile and imbecilic tangent.

Overall, this last post of yours makes me want to ask you a question.
Are you on drugs?
and if the answer is "no",
Should you be?

Truly, the stuff you present here makes you sound less and less like someone who just happens to have bad ideas about the world, less and less like a troll even, more like someone desperate to maintain their vainglorious self-image while, because of this, slowly loosing his tethers to reality and actually seeing them recede in the distance while desperately trying to grab at them like a drowning man reaching for a life-preserver.

[Jaeger]

I’ve refrained from commenting in here lest I throw more fuel on the fire, but I feel obligated to speak up regarding a few of HC’s points.

Apparently I'm one of the few people on here that doesn't live in some hippie commune where every progressive idea is universally accepted. I live in the real world, where mixed race couples are still something a bit outside the norm.

And “outside the norm” is bad?. Is that what you mean? That is what you’re implying

1. Race is not just skin color, but culture. It is common knowledge that, in general, blacks watch totally different television shows than whites, they eat different foods, stuff like that. Unless we're talking about a pair of orphans, families of different cultures will not be that happy with the alien traditions their child is marrying into. The couple very rarely fits seamlessly into social situations.
2. On a tangent, intermarriage destroys both heritages. Jewish mothers round the world know that interfaith marriage is a bigger threat to Judaism than bullets or rockets. Blending is dissolution. Homogeneity does not celebrate diversity, but rather kills it.

As someone who was raised in a very Protestant home, I can tell you it’s been very educational being married to a Jew. I’ve long since abandoned any ties to Christianity, but my upbringing set my core assumptions and (for lack of a better word) beliefs. Marrying into a big Jewish family has caused me to reconsider a great many things that I had previously taken for granted; e.g., what is the role of Reason/intellect in religion? What is the role of God in religion? What are “permissible” or “acceptable” questions regarding religion? What does it really mean to be a “minority”? Why are Jews disproportionately successful compared to most other racial/ethnic/cultural groups?

It’s one thing to treat these questions as an academic or intellectual exercise, it’s quite another to find yourself neck-deep in it. For example, the Nazis wouldn’t be going after “that Jewish kid” and “that Jewish lady,” they’d be coming after MY kid and MY wife. Big difference. Before I like to think I’d have stood up for the oppressed, now I have no choice. (For the record, I have not converted to Judaism, nor will I.)

Your argument is based on maintaining the status quo. You don’t want to blur the lines because it might make someone “uncomfortable.” As someone who is currently raising a little Jewish girl with the surname of “Jaeger” and a fondness for ham and crabcakes, I enjoy blurring the lines.

3. … Plundering the 'desirable' sex from a given race is a progressive and beneficial idea?

I believe it’s called “Evolution.” Self-solving problem. If someone chooses not to participate that’s their prerogative.

4. Minorities are the biggest proponents of "sticking to your own kind" as they have the most to lose. Every minority can have a child with whitey and there will still be plenty of whities to breed with each other. The minority group will have essentially lost their bloodline.

You’re working on a couple of short-sighted assumptions:
1) That one side or the other is somehow “better”
2) That Honkeys are and will remain the majority

I’ll grant you that lots of people think in this way, I just find it to be very myopic. In 1,000 years (assuming humanity doesn’t self-extinguish) these identifiers will be irrelevant and blurry beyond definition.

5. Mixed race children are known for not really fitting in anywhere growing up, for identity issues. This is unnecessary suffering.

On the contrary, I would call that necessary suffering (as they will most assuredly encounter assholes), but that’s life and suffering of some stripe is inevitable. If they’re smart and lucky they’ll derive some wisdom from their suffering and pass it along to the next generation, etc.

Additionally, it’s not like mix-breeds are going away, and everybody really needs to accept that fact. You again refer to “social awkwardness,” which is a pretty lame justification. The social awkwardness is the result of assholes, not genetics.

The folks who’re born of mixed parents are trailblazers. They represent the future. I say this in terms of genetics, philosophy, and society. You argue that homogeneity kills diversity – which is arguably true – and that’s FINE. Better than “fine,” really! That’s America, dude! That’s the whole point, at least in my opinion! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts, and the exchange of perspectives, ideas, and aesthetics is invaluable not only to Americans but to the world as a whole. (Not to mention the cuisine! Thank doG for ethnic restaurants!)

I’m not a “German American” or “French American” or “English American” or “Scottish American,” though I could theoretically claim any of those monikers. I’m a Yankee. My family has been here as long as anybody (goddamn Johnny-come-latelys on the Mayflower). This “lack” of an ethnic background is, itself, a background: I’m a Yankee. That I happen to be predominantly a Euro-mutt is irrelevant. Sure, growing up Black (or Asian, or Desi, etc.) in America will give you a slightly different perspective, but that's largely due to the bigotry of assholes (e.g., someone who's Black is statistically more likely to encounter bigotry than a White guy like me, but I've received my share on occasion).

Your argument hinges upon the desire for ethnical/racial groups to remain separate and distinct to preserve… something. I don’t know why you (or anyone) would want that, particularly here in America, unless you think that we’ve somehow reached the pinnacle of evolution, which I rather doubt. Additionally, I’m not sure which group you might think would be at the Zenith, or in what capacity.

According to that heretic Charlie Darwin, the more weird, unusual, or unlikely a pairing only makes things more interesting. Yay chaos. Adapt or die.

And yes, in my experience, mix-breeds are generally more aesthetically pleasing than inbreds. I don’t know why that is, but it’s true. I believe this statement to be self-evident but will back it up if so desired.

I readily concede that race is essentially a societal construct.

Yup, so why defend it? To what end? To preserve what?

--Jaeger

[DerGolgo]

You know, come to think of it, I come from a mixed race family. I has affected me so deeply, I totally spaced on it thus far.
About, ooh, 75 years ago, a Scottish banker sent his upper-pre-middle-class family (the British class system, it is confusing) on a grand tour of central Europe. They stopped at Lake Constance where, in the hotel restaurant, a young and (literally) starving musician was operating the piano. An exotic (for a Scottish girl it was) foreign land, a girl with a sheltered upbringing, away from father's watchful gaze, a struggling artist, a musician to boot - my grandmother didn't really stand any chance, did she. You may make the case that they aren't a different race (though some Europeans would disagree), but they were a different cultural background in every respect. My great-grandfather at first disowned grandmother. He couldn't stomach the idea of his little girl marrying a Hun, the last war was still too fresh in memory. They eventually made up through red-cross letters, though. While occupying France with the Brandenburgers (my grandfather was too short for frontline duty so he was basically the Radar O'Reilly of his unit, having officers who enjoyed classical music helped), they produced my father. After the war, after making a good show on the black market and all that, my grandparents were getting disappointed with post-war German poverty and squalor. They thought things would be better in the land of the victorious, grandma had inherited half of the old family home when her parents had died shortly before the end of the war. So they went to Scotland, where my father suddenly had to speak not just English but Scottish all the damn time. Things were worse than in Germany (Germans got care packages, Scots did not) was far removed from his industrial and cultured hometown, thrust into a town with approximately one factory and lots of agriculture all around, an entirely different school system and a population that wasn't all too fond of Germans, really. He adapted. My grandparents adapted. Eventually, they uprooted my father yet again and went back to Germany.

So my father did not only grow up between two cultures, cultures which were at war at that, he was repeatedly uprooted and thrust from one culture into the other. How did he turn out?
He managed to finance his university education (this was way before student loans and assistance) by the time he was fourteen, he had turned his joy in stamp collecting into a career starter. At university, he met my mother. They had to get married. Not because of pregnancy, but because they wanted to move in together, which had been legalized for unmarried couples only in 1958, and respectable landlords still wouldn't rent to them. They had to go to the Bishop and sign a solemn pledge that they wouldn't dare and inflict my father's protestantism on the children, who would be catholic like their mother. After the Bishop had given his okay, my grandmother on my mother's side stepped in. She had nine kids and when the pope started dealing with Hitler (a non catholic!) she started opposing the pope even. She would NOT have any of her daughters marry a damn dirty Prussian protestant and did what she could to stop it.
Didn't work, and once the (catholic) sacrament had been bestowed, she became as protective of her daughter's marriage as any catholic fundamentalist would.
So there was a hurdle there, not ethnic and not really cultural, but religious. Which, once overcome, was forgotten by all for the next few decades.
My father went into business for himself and fathered three kids, one of whom is me. The business flourished, when I was a pre-schooler, I remember my father having a bleeding chauffeur for a while. Business eventually went belly up in the 1990s, boom and subsequent bust brought about by re-unification. Now my father is back to making money with stamps. But he is still married to my mother, for forty years next summer. All his kids are employed (one of them a doctor, too!), he has three grandchildren now. So socially, he turned out quite alright, I think.
Despite a lifetime of smoking three packs a day and drinking like someone half Scottish, no health problems, so mixing the tribes was not detrimental there.

As a kid of a mixed-culture kid, who spent his summer (and other) vacations in the old family place in Scotland rather than the usual vacation spots his classmates went to, who had his devout catholic mother on the one side and his effectively atheist father on the other side, while being told of at least three different cultural backgrounds he apparently came from, I never felt a bit uncomfortable about all of that. I actually like having Scottish ancestry while growing up in Germany.

[JoJoLesh]

Holly freking crap!!!
Glad I read "100% Racism Free?" be for I came into this thread.

[happycommuter]

And “outside the norm” is bad?. Is that what you mean? That is what you’re implying

Is milk and meat bad? Since everyone is so darn interested, I just think it's weird. I certainly don't understand why anyone would mate with someone that looks totally different from themselves. There is often some sort of self-hatred or familial vengeance going on, but who knows? Despite someone else's insinuation, it's really not my problem. It's stripes and plaids to me, but then I felt iffy reading about all the cross-breeding of animals at a recent agricultural thing. Deuteronomy 22:9-11, bitches. Also, who considers a sportbike engine in a cruiser kosher? Buells, that Diavel thing - totally unkosher. One doesn't need to be a a diehard purist to know this.

I believe it’s called “Evolution.” Self-solving problem. If someone chooses not to participate that’s their prerogative.

I'm not sure complicity makes unplanned genocide a good thing.

In 1,000 years (assuming humanity doesn’t self-extinguish) these identifiers will be irrelevant and blurry beyond definition.

Truth. Muslims and Hispanics are set to win in the near future because of their repopulation rates. As you likely know, this is another reason why Israel is ultimately doomed.

And yes, in my experience, mix-breeds are generally more aesthetically pleasing than inbreds. I don’t know why that is, but it’s true. I believe this statement to be self-evident but will back it up if so desired.

Well inbred is an extreme and the Nordic countries apparently have examples of people lacking sufficient biodiversity... but this is a fallacy if you stretch it to general population. You will show me Jessica Alba or something, who is an outlier. The minority of this minority are a pleasing mix in my eye. Most are very muddled ugly ducklings with indistinct skin tones and incongruous features. Admittedly, anything new takes getting used to, but several times I've thought "why does this kid look so strange?" and then the parents will appear and it makes sense.

Yup, so why defend it? To what end? To preserve what?

Because you don't know what you've got till it's gone. We preserve species of animals, plants. Why?

[stiles]

Deuteronomy 22:9-11, bitches. Also, who considers a sportbike engine in a cruiser kosher? Buells, that Diavel thing - totally unkosher. One doesn't need to be a a diehard purist to know this

Ah, that Old Testament magic. Deuteronomy, where stoning your new wife to death is the way to go if you find out she's not a virgin, and woe be to those who wear linen-wool blend jackets. Death penalty for those who disobey their parents, and for drunkenness.

Hahahahaha

Also, Honda Magnas.

You're getting funnier and funnier as time goes by, cranky old man. Are you going to tell us to get off your lawn next? How does it feel to be on the wrong side of history?

[motorpsycho67]

But to claim Obama as the tipping point for secession after 8 years of Bush, that's just absolutely fucking ignorant.

Last truly decent man that occupied the Oval Orifice had his cap peeled back for trying to do too much... Before him it was,...... uh...... gimme a minute....





Oh, and I find it rather amusing that HC keeps validating his title.....

[Jaeger]

Also, Honda Magnas.

You shut your filthy whore mouth.

--Jaeger

[motorpsycho67]

But seriously, tell us what the black woman you asked about interracial dating said, because you will be mocked as a prejudicial simpleton till you do.

I'm reading this as you are assuming every black woman I ask will be against inter-racial dating? Thank you for proving that ignorance and bigotry go hand in hand.

Woah, woah, woah, woah.......... wait a minute...

I'd like to hear the answer to this. How about it HC? What do you suppose every black woman thinks of interracial dating?

[DerGolgo]

And “outside the norm” is bad?. Is that what you mean? That is what you’re implying

Is milk and meat bad? Since everyone is so darn interested, I just think it's weird. I certainly don't understand why anyone would mate with someone that looks totally different from themselves. There is often some sort of self-hatred or familial vengeance going on, but who knows? Despite someone else's insinuation, it's really not my problem. It's stripes and plaids to me, but then I felt iffy reading about all the cross-breeding of animals at a recent agricultural thing. Deuteronomy 22:9-11, bitches. Also, who considers a sportbike engine in a cruiser kosher? Buells, that Diavel thing - totally unkosher. One doesn't need to be a a diehard purist to know this.

"Self-hatred"? Right. Where I come from, I was taught "opposites attract". Some people are able to look past skin color.
And you admit on of the reasons for your stance here is the bible. Which makes it a matter of faith. Even less factual than a mere personal opinion. At least we got that cleared up.

I believe it’s called “Evolution.” Self-solving problem. If someone chooses not to participate that’s their prerogative.

I'm not sure complicity makes unplanned genocide a good thing.

Genocide is murdering large numbers of people for their ethnic, cultural or religious background. Fucking and making babies is not murder.

In 1,000 years (assuming humanity doesn’t self-extinguish) these identifiers will be irrelevant and blurry beyond definition.

Truth. Muslims and Hispanics are set to win in the near future because of their repopulation rates. As you likely know, this is another reason why Israel is ultimately doomed.

I believe the Indians and Chinese may have some words to say in that regard, I believe the population of South America is still growing, too.

And yes, in my experience, mix-breeds are generally more aesthetically pleasing than inbreds. I don’t know why that is, but it’s true. I believe this statement to be self-evident but will back it up if so desired.

Well inbred is an extreme and the Nordic countries apparently have examples of people lacking sufficient biodiversity... but this is a fallacy if you stretch it to general population. You will show me Jessica Alba or something, who is an outlier. The minority of this minority are a pleasing mix in my eye. Most are very muddled ugly ducklings with indistinct skin tones and incongruous features. Admittedly, anything new takes getting used to, but several times I've thought "why does this kid look so strange?" and then the parents will appear and it makes sense.

The majority of "mixed race" persons don't look much mixed race. Like here in Europe, we're all already mongrels. Some of the more recent mongrels (1st generation mixed race) I went to school with didn't look anything out of the ordinary. And who cares about ugly? A kid is a kid, deciding not to have kids because they might not be pretty is the shallowest idea I have ever heard of.

Yup, so why defend it? To what end? To preserve what?

Because you don't know what you've got till it's gone. We preserve species of animals, plants. Why?

Yes, we preserve species. Newsflash, you and some African dude and a Chinese person, you are all the same race the three of you. Also, mostly, we preserve species to keep the balance of the ecosystem. Avoiding mixing of different ethnicities balances no ecosystem.

[thrasherbill]

I still want to know how he breathes with his head so far up his ass. Must be a tube. Like a snorkel.

[happycommuter]

And you admit on of the reasons for your stance here is the bible. Which makes it a matter of faith.

I'm not a true adherent to Mosiac law, and I'm pretty sure that Catholicism is ambivalent, at least officially, on the issue.

I believe it’s called “Evolution.” Self-solving problem. If someone chooses not to participate that’s their prerogative.

I'm not sure complicity makes unplanned genocide a good thing.

Genocide is murdering large numbers of people for their ethnic, cultural or religious background.[/quote]Yeah, this is a mild stretch, but it's really the flip side of eugenics in a way.

A kid is a kid, deciding not to have kids because they might not be pretty is the shallowest idea I have ever heard of.

I've heard people that actually think the existence of a few odd mixed race models/actresses means that all mixed race people are soooo gorgeous. That is bunk.

Newsflash, you and some African dude and a Chinese person, you are all the same race the three of you.

Okay, so if I use the example of some botanist or dog breeder that goes nuts striving for some their ideal orchid or whatever sub-breed of dog and coat coloration, are these people evil and stupid? Some great lazy that used to show up on Oprah would decry the melting pot idea with the analogy of a crisp salad where things are in proximity but separate and distinct, as opposed to some nasty vegetable smoothie where it is all one textureless amalgam. Maintain diversity or we'll all be stuck on these power cruisers and adventure bikes.

In hindsight, it turns out that the word kosher does imply some sense of morality, or at least holiness, and that seems to be why you're all so peeved. I know you'll say that disapproval is a code word for hatred, but when I see girls walking down the street in Uggh boots, I'd don't approve. I find it unkosher, as they're not street footwear. It offends my taste and sensibilities. I don't hate the girl or even the boots. or consider them evil, immoral, inferior or any such thing. But I'm aware that they're wrecking their feet and will have trouble down the line.

[DerGolgo]

And you admit on of the reasons for your stance here is the bible. Which makes it a matter of faith.

I'm not a true adherent to Mosiac law, and I'm pretty sure that Catholicism is ambivalent, at least officially, on the issue.

Not a strict adherent? That is an iffy statement, could put you anywhere on a spectrum starting with deists and ending with cherry-picking biblical literalists who hate gays because of Leviticus, but will still eat at Red Lobster. I will get back to that in the progress of this post.

Genocide is murdering large numbers of people for their ethnic, cultural or religious background.

Yeah, this is a mild stretch, but it's really the flip side of eugenics in a way.

No, it is NOT. I have studied eugenics in school, because around here, we used to take that to the extreme. When I got conscripted, I spent my service taking care of severely mentally disabled people, at least two of whom were only alive because their families physically hid them from eugenics enforcers.
Eugenics aims to "improve" the species by endorsing that those with "desirable" traits have more kids and those with "undesirable" traits , like a disability or just being not very bright, be sterilized. Or shoved into a truck which then had exhaust gases pumped inside. Eugenics treats human beings like cattle. Yes, some racists used it, but it still is not somehow connected to mixing skin colors. Yes, the Nazis in particular used eugenics to breed some pure Aryan race (despite the Aryans being from India. Nazis, they don't pay attention to other cultures, do they). But if anything, that makes mixing race not the flipside, but the opposite of eugenics. Having a kid with someone is, ideally, an act of love, the definition of humanity. Skin colors get mixed? Who cares?! I will get back to that, too. But evolutionarily speaking, it does what eugenics never did, improve the species. Physical attraction is, from what I understand, governed quite a bit by how we perceive the other's immune system. It's good, it's got stuff I want? Let's make babies! People of different ethnic backgrounds bring different immune systems to the table, more so in times past than today, so for some people, the evolutionary pressures override the ickyness, if there is any, of different skin color. I'm not saying that mixing race is thus particularly desirable for such effects, there is no standard according to which some physical attribute or lack of it makes some human better than another. So the question of desirability doesn't arise. But it certainly isn't particularly undesirable for that. So I don't see any biological reason why two people who love each other, regardless of their respective skin color, shouldn't make many, many babies (except maybe the global population explosion, but that is a different question).

A kid is a kid, deciding not to have kids because they might not be pretty is the shallowest idea I have ever heard of.

I've heard people that actually think the existence of a few odd mixed race models/actresses means that all mixed race people are soooo gorgeous. That is bunk.

Here, we actually do agree. Anyone who needs the fucking fashion industry to tell them what or who is pretty is in dire need of a brain transplant. That doesn't change the fact that some people end up pretty, some don't and that, most importantly, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That some idiots have a bad idea of judging beauty is, however, absolutely no argument for you stance that mixed race people are so likely to be un-pretty that their parents shouldn't make them to begin with. Also, that half-philipino girl I mentioned earlier? In a year of about 120 students, she was definitely in the top five percent of hotties. Apart from appearing to have spent much time in the sun, and even that only in winter when everyone else was a pale contrast, you'd have to be some sort of fanatical anthropologist to notice anything out of the teutonic in her.

Newsflash, you and some African dude and a Chinese person, you are all the same race the three of you.

Okay, so if I use the example of some botanist or dog breeder that goes nuts striving for some their ideal orchid or whatever sub-breed of dog and coat coloration, are these people evil and stupid? Some great lazy that used to show up on Oprah would decry the melting pot idea with the analogy of a crisp salad where things are in proximity but separate and distinct, as opposed to some nasty vegetable smoothie where it is all one textureless amalgam. Maintain diversity or we'll all be stuck on these power cruisers and adventure bikes.

First off, that bit about the botanist and the dog breeder? You are seriously comparing human beings to flowers and dogs?
Is your "untrue" adherence to Mosaic law past that bit in Genesis where god commands his flock to subdues the fish and the fowl and the every living thing that moveth?
THAT is where most Christian talk about humans not being animals, about how why nature should serve us rather than the other way around, most of that I have ever heard comes from. It's Genesis 1, 1:28 btw., and it's how and why the churches started opposing one of the great crimes of the 20th century, eugenics.
Which this brings me back to. Thinking about humans in the terms a botanist may consider a flower or a dog-breeder may consider a dog is exactly, 100% the stuff behind the ideas of eugenics. It IS the definition of eugenics, treating humans like animals to be bred. Ask yourself: Do you truly believe this? Or is it only a half-thought-out half-argument you came up with in a hurry? Even then, not realizing this only a few paragraphs after you mentioned eugenics, on the same page even, in the same post - not seeing that connection, that this is exactly what you linked to genocide and essentially condemned earlier, that marks you out as either a master of double-think or double-talk. Neither of which gives you any moral high ground, or any valid argument for your thesis that races shouldn't mix. All it gives you is a pair of jackboots and jodphurs to go with that brown shirt and armband.

Regarding the preservation of diversity, I'd like to add this:
Now, diversity is great. It's lovely, it's amazing. I actually do mean that, I have neighbors from three different countries in one building, all restaurants within more than a mile a run by actual immigrants, that alone would be worth quite some trouble. But it's not even any trouble or bother. It's just fucking jangleplatz is what it is, and I recommend it to everyone. Why? Because there are so many more things you can introduce into your life than there would be without it. Utterly selfish point of view, I know, and there are many more and good reasons for diversity, but this is the one I prefer. But you know what? If you keep all the different ethnicities and cultures separated, if you prevent any actual mixing, it's bloody pointless. What is important about diversity is more culture than race, and with culture, that which is useful or just plain cool sticks around while other stuff gets lost. Preserving culture, the aspects of a culture important to a specific group, is important and good. Yet I do not see why the color of those who do the preserving must remain the same for that. Cultures flourish, cultures die, it has been thus ever since the homo spaiens first met the neanderthal and suddenly realized they had habits different from the other hominids, proto culture if you will (according to Neal Stephenson, the mythological concepts of dwarfs and elves and their differences may have started then). We have lost more culture than any of us will ever know. But as long as we carry the customs that are important to us forward, we are doing exactly what thousands of generations before us have done, as long as we are aware that other things have happened before, that our customs have old and sometimes quite grizzly origins, that other people in other places and or at other times had different customs, and that what may strike us as silly reasons for their customs is no more silly than the stuff our own customs come from, we are doing way, war more. I know I do it without spending any time thinking about it, even though the only customs I carry forward are christmas gifts, gifts at birthdays, flowers on mother's day and hiding candy for my nieces and nephew on easter. I've lost more Christian, European, German, Prussian, Westphalian, Scottish and other customs than I will ever know simply by either not having learned about them, having heard of them but never having considered them my business, or having actively rejected them (like Christianity, I'm a government approved atheist, left the church and all that. Before they changed the rules and made it so that leaving the church didn't automatically excommunicate you, too.) And when some cultures blend together and their differences disappear, new cultures arise. True, in the age of the internet, it's understandable that some fear we will soon see a uniform world-culture. But that fear has been around since television, and what I see on the internet is more and more subcultures, which we can pick and choose from as we please. Choice is good for individuality and freedom, right? So we got that, so unless I can make my life with any aspects from any culture I encounter, diversity is utterly pointless and only serves to help the intolerant become even more intolerant. The mixing blunts their words and eventually makes the hate go away.

In hindsight, it turns out that the word kosher does imply some sense of morality, or at least holiness, and that seems to be why you're all so peeved. I know you'll say that disapproval is a code word for hatred, but when I see girls walking down the street in Uggh boots, I'd don't approve. I find it unkosher, as they're not street footwear. It offends my taste and sensibilities. I don't hate the girl or even the boots. or consider them evil, immoral, inferior or any such thing. But I'm aware that they're wrecking their feet and will have trouble down the line.

Well, all this shows is that you are, in fact, intolerant. You do not tolerate that which you don't like, to whit, you speak out about it. I don't know if there's a specific term for someone who isn't a racist but is opposed to miscegenation, a rainbow-racial-purist? But intolerant you are, by your own description.
Since you do seem to have a set of preconceptions about people based on their race (like that black people all watch different TV shows, with no qualifier like "Apprently, statistically"), you do appear a little bit racist, too. While I do agree with you that young women should do anything but ruin their health just to follow some silly fashion trend, this idea of rainbow-racial-purity combined with that, two paragraphs earlier, you seem to describe eugenics as a good thing, with the botanist and the dog breeder and all that, I must say I think you are not right. Not morally, not ethically, not intellectually, not in the head. You are either unwilling (since you've proven that you're surely not unable) to think your ideas and the arguments you bring through, marking out the kind of mindset that stood idly by and even approved of the brownshirts rising to power, or you have failed to admit to yourself the true extent of your feelings here, which might just go as far as hating. Not necessarily hating brown people, but hating mixed coupling and probably, as few people in the world can truly separate the sin from the sinner as they always claim they can, the couple themselves.

OR, giving you the benefit of the doubt, maybe you're just not ready to admit that you're a bit scared. Not of people of different skin color, but of a society where you might be in the minority. If that, in fact, scares you, YOU should be on the front lines and on the barricades of the fight for minority rights. Because if, in fact, you do end up in the minority one day, you'd sure want that minority's rights and customs recognized and respected. I'm against blanket protection of minority rights, there's a give and take and some overriding principles which are more important than some customs carried forward from the bronze age, it's equality for all individuals rather than treating people differently because of their background that should be achieved. But we disagree on so many things anyway, please don't let that stop you from taking up the mantle of the defender of minority rights.

Also, regarding high-revving cruisers.
In one of my favorite bike rags, for many years, the bikes of members of the (fairly legendary, invitation only) Chopper Club of Great Britain were regularly featured for some years. Members would build their cruiser around any powerplant they could afford. At a time when big vee-twins were still a bit rare, they grabbed any engine or whole bike they could get their hands on. Which, in the 90s and early 00s was, more often than not, a Suzuki Bandit 600. Bulletproof, got some pull and dirt cheap, what more does a broke ass bike builder want? In Sweden, where the sickest and craziest of Europe's "choppers" are built (and are usually legal, too), using things like the engine from a Speed Tripple isn't that rare, apparently, either. It does make sense, in a strange sort of way. You are sitting low and lean back, all easy and cool and relaxed, you may not want an engine that kicks you in the balls every time a sparkplug fires but, rather, something as smooth as the rest of your image, something that just purrs and can suddenly shoot forward. Like a wild cat, a cheetah or something.

[JoJoLesh]

In hindsight, it turns out that the word kosher does imply some sense of morality, or at least holiness, and that seems to be why you're all so peeved. I know you'll say that disapproval is a code word for hatred, but when I see girls walking down the street in Uggh boots, I'd don't approve. I find it unkosher, as they're not street footwear. It offends my taste and sensibilities. I don't hate the girl or even the boots. or consider them evil, immoral, inferior or any such thing. But I'm aware that they're wrecking their feet and will have trouble down the line.

Please document the evidence for your belief here, that they are "wrecking their feet". I believe that the worst thing for our feet are supportive footwear. A wearing a good supportive shoe all of the time is similar to hobbling around on crutches all the time then wondering why your legs are weak. Sure wearing unsupportive shoes can make your feet sore, just as I am sore after going to the gym. Its a good sore.

Don't blame the ugly shoe/boot. Blame the modern tennis shoe, or the 15 - 20 extra pounds most of us are packing around.

[SSCAM]

Winter must be on it's way...

I'll just go ahead and dust this off:

[Sisyphus]

LOL I almost forgot about that....

[motorpsycho67]

HC must be well on his way to China....

[DerGolgo]

A further thought regarding minorities/majorities has occurred to me, a not-quite-unimportant one.

A society which is divided into minority and majority, where people treat each other according to which one they and their opposite number belong to, is NOT a free culture. Free as in Freedom, I mean.
Regardless of how well the majority and minority get along, as long as belonging to either group is a defining factor in how one is treated and treats others, the individual is cast as a member of either group. A significant part of that individual's freedom to choose who they are and how to live their life is thus taken. They must work quite a bit harder to find a lifestyle that encompasses what they like, rather than what their culture tells them they should like as a member of either the majority or minority. True, you might say most people wouldn't even want that and are fine with what they got, or should bloody well work for it, their own choice, their own damn problem.
BUT, the question is whether, in a society in which the distinctions between the two groups is clear enough, the choice even appears. One who is unaware they are able to speak freely may as well be mute, knowing that one has a choice is the foundational bedrock of any freedom. A society that assigns a place for everyone based on who their parents were, that thus restricts (not ultimately, but still restricts) an individual's choice as to what to make of their life is not a free society.

As regards conflict between an oppressive majority or a pesky minority (or even an oppressive minority, like in South Africa back in the day). It is a fallacy of many who see other's as their "enemy" that in order to resolve the situation, the enemy must be defeated, must be destroyed. As a matter of fact, an enemy ceases to be your enemy when he becomes your friend. Likewise, if the distinctive factor between to groups disappears, any conflict between those two groups would cease to be along that distinguishing line, as that line and hence both groups have gone. Yes, a conflict may continue, be carried on by the dumb, but they'd have to find some new distinguishing lines to fight along. As for racism, I cannot see that surviving the blurring of the lines. Cultural conflicts maybe, conflicts based on what people do, but if everyone looks the same, a conflict based on what someone looks like is no only pointless but impossible.
Things would not even have to get that far to improve notably. If the distinctions between the majority and the minority become blurred enough, conflict between the two groups will become ever more difficult. Yes, this may very well drive a few nutters further into the corners and turn them fundamentalist, but for the absolute majority of the population, the conflict would be gone and they don't have to cross the street if a group of the others comes along, like their grandparents may have had to. Never mind job opportunities or a nice restaurant their grandparents may never have known.

we just gotta eliminate them. White people, black people, brown people, yellow people, get rid of 'em all/ All we need is a voluntary, free spirited, open-ended program of procreative racial deconstruction/ Everybody just gotta keep fuckin' everybody til they're all the same color