UTMC

I like it how the worst misfits who probably couldn't even pick up trash cans think that a racist of fascist party will turn them from hobo's to prince of the new order

http://www.ibtimes.com/dad-appears-nazi ... to-1288939#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A New Jersey man who gave his children Nazi-inspired names and lost custody of them last year, is petitioning the court for visitation rights. Dressed in a Nazi uniform, Campbell appeared before a family court judge to hear whether he could visit his 2-year-old son, Hons.

"I'm going to tell the judge, I love my children; I wanna be a father, let me be it," Campbell told NBC10 Monday before the hearing. "Let me prove to the world that I am a good father."

Hons was born in November 2011. Within 16 hours of his birth, state child services representatives took custody of the newborn. He was Heath and Deborah Campbell’s fourth child.

Nearly three years earlier, the couple’s three children, Adolf Hitler Campbell, Joycelynn Aryan Nation Campbell and Honszlynn Hinler Jeannie Campbell were taken into state custody. A state appeals court ruled that the family had a history of domestic violence that put the children at risk of abuse and neglect, ABC News reports.

The reason racism and fascism appeals to some people is, IMHO, that it's telling them they're special, they're better than anyone else. Regardless of what a fuckup that person may or may not be, to many, this crap is appealing. They can't deal with not being as important or as special as they'd like, so they gravitate towards this crap. They're stuck in the tribal stage of our evolution, but finding a tribe to associate with and differentiate from others with is, in the post-industrial world, not merely difficult but not strong and clear enough a delineation. They need something more, something that clearly screams how they, for being a part of their tribe, are better than others.
Beyond the need to have a tribe and differentiation, they can't handle the basic idea that other people may be as valid or as important as they are, that they they don't have the world at their feet, that for the rest of the world, they're just another asshole among many. The problem isn't that they don't recognize this, they do - they just can't handle the cold hard truth they they're not special, which is why they have to find something that convinces them that they are.
So they find opinions that not only tell them that they're special after all, but feel more and more special and righteous the further they get from the mainstream.
For some, for the actually dangerous, having such fucked-up opinions is enough for their self-validation, their opinion tells them they're special to begin with, but when they notice how they disagree with the mainstream, they feel righteous to boot. What makes them more dangerous is that they may still feel the need to go further, or just to go vote really, but you can't tell them apart from people who don't have such fucked-up opinions.
But others, they need a little more, a reminder, an affirmation of not just that they are special and righteous, but why.
Depending on how sad a fuckup they are, and how un-smart, they thus become louder and more bellicose, having to constantly prove to the perceived voyeur that they are what they are, why they are special and that they are, in fact, righteous.

This particular fuckup has such a fucked-up emotional framework, playing dress-up and relegating his own family to bit-players in his effort to bolster his self-esteem is all he can do to deal with a world where mommy isn't there to hold his hand at all times.

Of course, this is just my opinion and the world isn't quite so simple, black-and-white, it's all a sliding-grey-scale-mashup-rainbow-soup.

I'm all for it. Frankly, to his mind, he was showing appropriate respect for the Court (by dressing up in what he believes to be formal and proper attire) and exercising his 1st Amendment right. No, I'm not going to have beers with the guy and discuss his politics or views of the world but that does not mean he shouldn't be allowed to express them. Freedom has a price.

I am often in court with Defendants that show up in sweat pants, spaghetti stained t-shirts and flip flops. When their case is called, they show no respect for procedure, the judge or the other parties. It's galling and often results in judges dropping the hammer on them. It's a disregard of the role of an ordered society - not a disagreement with it like this guy has - but a full disregard.

Sure, this guy is a whack, but the Constitution is there to protect the whack jobs and gives this society the credit to fetter out the whacks from the rest. To do otherwise would be patronizing. And no, we haven't always gotten it right, but the circle usually comes around when we're wrong (to my mind Bush, McCarthy, Jim Crowe, etc).

I think I disagree. He didn't dress up like that out of respect for the court, I don't think. More like he dressed up like that to reaffirm to himself how he is standing up to show it to "the man", as a gesture of defiance. You could argue that, at least, he respected the court enough to make an effort to make his gesture, rather than disregarding the proceeding's meaning entirely.
But someone who goes around naming his kids Adolf Hitler and then manages to loose custody probably didn't make it so far intellectually as to work this out consciously. What he probably did recognize was that he'd have his fifteen minutes in the spotlight - and he had to look right for that, being as righteous and smart as he has to convince himself that he is.

I've been to enough anti-fascist protest marches and counter protests, I have, in my time, sacrificed quite a few weekends for that and caught a nasty head-cold from that on at least one occasion ... but this shithead doesn't even make me angry. If anything, he's producing some effective anti-nazi propaganda. The poster boy for the Reich is this sad looser - he's so incompetent at spreading his message, he can't even figure out no one will listen if he walks into court dressed up like that. I approve of that. Let him speak, indeed.
As much as he may offend people who had family members murdered by the Nazi regime, or people who belong to groups on the Nazi's general shit-list like homosexuals or communists or, well, almost anyone not a blonde German, really, as much as he may offend anyone sane, really ... you can bet that he offends another group, perhaps more even than his opponents. The genuinely dangerous nazis, the one's who have figured out how to recruit others for the cause, the one's who understand spreading the message. They'll be tearing their hair out over this guy, they'll spend many hours trying to figure out how to counter his propaganda efforts, rather than spending that time on their own political work. You could honestly question who's side he's really on.

It's simpler than that. what was the penalty for impersonating a nazi officer under the nazi regime ? probably death ?

I learned just yesterday that Hugo Boss personally designed all the IIIrd reigh uniforms, including nazi's, ss, and all the fiesta.

xtian wrote:It's simpler than that. what was the penalty for impersonating a nazi officer under the nazi regime ? probably death ?

You think he's trying suicide-by-gestapo? Also, I'm not entirely sure he is impersonating an officer. That Litzen on his collar looks like the modern Bundeswehr insignia for army engineers, but the wehrmacht didn't have silver bars on a black background - that strikes me more like something dreamt up by someone who only knows the 1930s and 40s from black-and-white photos. The shoulder-boards are difficult to make out, but I googled this freak's name and found a better image. Definitely not officer insignia, rather some manner of NCO. Could be a Stabsfeldwebel, similar to a sergeant major. He'd also get into trouble for the golden thing on his right breast-pocket, though. It looks like a Sturmabzeichen, a medal for participation in combat engagements. The gold one, too, for at least 75 such engagements. And he's wearing it on the wrong side, goes on the left, that one.
Even if it's not an officer's uniform, a stabsfeldwebel, and with combat medals he hadn't earner, oh dear...
For a Nazi, he seems to have little clue about German thoroughness and anal-retentiveness.

xtian wrote:I learned just yesterday that Hugo Boss personally designed all the IIIrd reigh uniforms, including nazi's, ss, and all the fiesta.

Well, they were the best-dressed of all the murderous regimes, weren't they. I recall, way back in the early and mid nineties, when everyone was ever so upset about kids at school being so pre-occupied with brand-name clothing and kids who couldn't afford expensive brand threads getting mocked and excluded, etc. At one point, when some people would wear sweatshirts with a huge BOSS logo on the front, pointing out to them that by wearing BOSS brand they were wearing, advertising even, the brand-name of Hitler's tailor was a bit fashionable in certain circles. But I'm not so sure he did the Wehrmacht uniforms. I know he did the SS, Waffen SS etc., the threads for all the field marshals and some party-uniforms. But the wehrmacht stuck to it's own stuff, to my understanding. Many in the wehrmacht didn't really like the nazis all that much. Hitler was just a corporal, see. Bad enough that self-respecting prussian officers had to take orders from a mere corporal, but fashion advice? I think that's pretty much where they drew the line.

well, if he only designed the good looking ones, I guess it's ok then

Well, apart from how he was a devoted sponsoring member of the SS and how he built his company on slave labor, I wouldn't exactly describe the threads he came up with as good looking. More like the same brutal aesthetic that was popular in nazi architecture, designed to look strong, authoritative, intimidating. Also, what's difficult in architecture, a bit hyper-masculine. Stylish, yes, perhaps even fashionable in it's day, but good looking?

I've got to go (mostly) with goose on this. Even if this guy is (and he is no doubt) a grade A nut job, the grand ole US of A was founded by what were then predominantly 30 something separatists considered to be grade A nut jobs. Going forth they built the framework of a nation protecting what would later be called natural selection...ie the right to be a grade A nut job, because sooner or later nature will kill you until you die from it.

Bottom line (right in the middle): giving your kids screwball/asshole names is not illegal. Teaching your kids your personal version of society isn't only legal but encouraged as a natural right. If we allow ourselves to discriminate because we don't concur with how he's raising his family, then we might as well don the same uniform.

Critically looking, this jackass has 4 children of the same wife who ardently shares and supports his belief. That's more than most politicians can claim, hell it's more than I can claim. Going into my divorce, my ex tried to bring up my atheism, and was quickly smacked the fuck down by the judge (I loved it) because it is to play no role in legal decisions. Regardless of how fucked this couples views seem (ARE how fucked up they ARE) we have no right to stymie them. Not to posit to great of a slippery-slope, but what comes next removing legally adopted children from homosexuals? Taking away kids from Islamic parents?

I've read a few more of the articles and testimony on this guy (re JACKASS), but have yet to find anything corroborating that he actually hurt his kids. "Confining them to certain areas of the house" and teaching them to be cussing little racists. Again, I don't agree, but I don't know that his kids should be taken away.

For full disclosure purposes, tonight, about 2.5 hrs ago, someone let me know what a prick of a father I was for correcting my son's posture and etiquette. Yes he is only 4, but he's my son, and I'll raise him as I see fit (wait until next year when I can legally take him to school on the bike). In any case I'm a bit prickly about this at the moment, but in principal I don't see how this is vastly different. My son is named after my grandfathers who (their words) "killed a whole bunch a dem little yella nip sominabitches" I have a framed picture of me in uniform next to a Mk3...the Mk2 paved the way for Nagasaki to become the sprawling multicultural metropolis it is today. I'm sure there are some Japanese folks that would be livid at this. Should I lose custody of my son?

ok I'm cool now...going to run it off...need to get the bike tagged/insured

you're all very very serious.

You're right, just because he's a nazi and perhaps stern when raising his kids, that does not indicate any reason why the kids should be taken away. As much as the idea that someone like this could spread his poison to another generation sickens me, kids belong with their parents as long as their parents aren't actually endangering or neglecting them.
However.
This guy thought that the smart thing to do when fighting for custody for his kids, the thing to do to look competent and responsible is to dress up like a nazi, not just a wehrmacht soldier but a nazi, complete with swastika armband. Like the greatest fucking villains of the 20th century, the ones millions of American soldiers gave their lives to defeat and whose defeat has been held up as evidence for American moral righteousness for over half a century. And walk into an American courthouse dressed like that.
Hubris, vanity or incompetence? The kids shouldn't be taken away for reasons of his political demonstrations, but someone from child protective services should probably poke their head around every now and again and coordinate with the teachers at their school.

It's nice to be all open minded and friendly and all, I like group hugs as much as any of you (just being formal, don't even try to hug me), and I know that in theses times of predicted apocalypse, kids are the new sacred and nothing is too precious for them, actually, I don't really like kids myself, I think that most of them are rather stupid, smelly, loud an annoying,and my girlfriend works with kids whom parents give more attention to their playstation that to the education of their many smelly crying sausages, but honestly no, I don't think that a guy who called his son adlof hitler and wears a nazi uniform is a valid dad and I'm glad that someone took a step to look closer at the guy. You seem to place the right to be exuberant above the ethic and the domestic violences mentioned in most articles. next thing you know, it's ok to kill anti fascist activist because they looked for it and skinhead is a valid cultural movement and all skinheads are not fascist and all the shit. excuse me for still having some strong opinion on fascism and nazi's, it wasn't all about the fancy uniforms and we in europe are THIS close to dive into the exact same mechanisms . I know dergolgo won't take that as a critism of germany, countries as laid back as france show nowadays a strong taste for white supremacy.

You're right, it is a good thing that these kids don't get exposed to this sort of indoctrination anymore. Any any domestic abuse is a separate question, if those kids got actually mistreated, taking them someplace safe is the necessary thing to do.

But this must be considered separately from his racism and fascism. If he had treated his kids well, had only indoctrinated them and named them as he did but had otherwise behaved like a good parent, the kids shouldn't have been taken away from him. Teachers should have been warned to make sure the kids get exposed to sanity when they're out of the home, but just because he's a fascist and a racist is not a good enough reason to take the kids away. Not because of any rights he may or may not have, but because kids need their parents, even if the parents end up giving the kids a shitty moral and ethical upbringing. Quite apart from which, there's the headline effect. If he had treated his kids fine, if the kids had been (apart from the racism and fascism) healthy and well adjusted, that would just have created a showcase for how these people are being kept down by the man, how the freedom of speech etc. that the man purports to protect for all isn't given them. The fascists already make a habit out of portraying themselves as the victims of the evil bolsheviks, the evil immigrants, the evil what have you, giving them an actual instance to point to where their "political views" lead to state action against them is counter-productive in preventing the spread of fascism. It just puts a bullet in their clip. So even if you think that a kid's need for his or her parents is less important than not being brought up a fascist or a racist, taking the kids away just for that is still a bad idea.

But that isn't what happened here, the article states it clearly:

Zoe Mintz on ibtimes.com wrote:Court documents show instances of domestic violence and abuse. The couple’s home in Holland Township, N.J., used skulls and knives as decorative features, and its windows were nailed shut. And Deborah apparently feared for her safety and the children's welfare. A neighbor gave police a handwritten note by Deborah accusing her husband of trying to kill her and teaching her son how to kill.

I had been arguing in the hypothetical that his, or rather their, fascist and racist views and behavior had been the only reason for the kids being removed, which is all I opposed. I think that's also where MK3 and goose came from, or at least that's how I understood it. Removing the kids for reasons of their health, safety and general well being is a different manner entirely, of course, and I doubt anyone here would disagree that, in fact, those were the reasons here.

As for criticizing Germany or not ... over the past decade, a group of neo-nazi "terrorists", or rather just fucking gangsters, murdered over a dozen immigrants and a cop and even carried out a very public nail-bombing or two. And all the law enforcement agencies were dead certain the murders and the bombings were unrelated, the first the doing of turko-greek protection-racketeers and the latter of mentally-disturbed people. If two of these murderers hadn't panicked and murder-suicided after a bank-robbery when a cop car stopped next to their RV, all the well funded and well staffed law-enforcement agencies over here wouldn't have figured it out. They hadn't even investigated in the direction of racism-motivated crime. When someone had suggested it in some memo or another, it was usually suppressed for being a "diversion" from the likely culprits. When the actual murderers had been interviewed, no one thought they were dangerous. Very experienced and highly-paid cops and intelligence people, even military intelligence had been involved in dropping that ball, had for over a decade been utterly unable to comprehend that, maybe, racists might go kill foreigners. When the whole affair was investigated by a parliamentary commission, it turned out it has just never occurred to them that this was possible, and even when it was suggested, it had struck no one as a realistic proposition. Cops who arrest lefty activists for being the same height as someone who held a megaphone at a protest march, itself proof of criminally inciting violence (why else would they have had a megaphone?), these cops are unable to comprehend that fascists and racists may commit violent crimes. Over here, when great political events are around the corner, executing search warrants and finger-printing etc. just to harass lefties is quite ordinary. Since 1990, the number of people killed in lefty-motivated violent crime is 0. Yet, at the same time, when in the same period no less than 139 people were murdered in fascism or racism motivated crime, the cops couldn't make the mental leap to just consider neo-nazis as potential suspects.
Criticize away, we are far, far from having learned much from our history. The laws may be good enough, but the institutions enforcing the law, the people who make up these institutions and really the population they come from, they've learned nothing.

I admit that I am too drunk to read all the responses to this post, but it is pretty sad that these folks are serious.


I hate New Jersey Nazis!

Mean Chuck wrote:

Come visit Rench while I'm also in the peoples republic of Illinois and we'll go to that bridge...you may jump in if you like.

Euro-gents, I've been getting particularly annoyed with the lynch-mob mentality of my countrymen lately. Xtian I tried to insert enough insults to this asshat to make it clear that while I don't support his asshattery, I'll defend to the death his right to be a fucktard. Not because I want a world full of fucktards, but because despite the fact, or maybe because of the fact that this goddamn afterbirth was allowed to ooze down the crack of his mother's ass and slap onto the cold linoleum floor of the same hospital the cast of Jersey shore was being born in, somewhere in that process an Arnold was born for this DeVito whose kooky ideas will make us all better. In a country founded on ideas, I have great concern at our increasingly cavalier homogenization efforts. We need good crazies to advance as a society and a species, and part of that bargain is the bad crazies. Ben Franklin tittered around France in a damn coonskin cap dipping his noodle into old rich women while drinking wine bitching about England and bullshitting about killing indians...WE APPOINTED HIM TO DO IT...we like crazies here, and now we're sucking all the fun out of the good ones to cockblock the bad ones. To me the ends do not justify the means.

By the way using this quote

used skulls and knives as decorative features, and its windows were nailed shut

with a group of motorcyclists, Again, not trying to just stick up for this particular douche, but I've got knives and skulls all over the damn place too, and a sword, and the list goes on; no swastikas, but they didn't mention those, and I think they would have. Hell I've got a framed picture of a douchebag in the bathroom (long story, ask at DOOM), though now that I think about it that could probably stand to move into the garage before the kid asks any questions...

I understand your point and I agree that skull and crosses don't make you more of a nazi that moustache do and I enjoy lunacy myself, but it's not like he went into a giant yellow bird costume pulling his tamed girafe on a leach, WWII national socialism is not just an Halloween costume taken out of an old disney mythology, there were 65 millions dead in the process, real stinky rotten dead persons, and I think it is a danger to let any inbreed wear it like a hat and turn it into an empty decorum on the right to look silly, especially now that most kids have just about no clue about what it was and what happened, and most important, now that all the ingredients are already rising to let it happen again. The guy wouldn't probably be considered a nice but safe lunatic if he had gone to the court disguised as Ousama Bin Laden with "death to all american pigs" written all over him.
but ok, I see and respect that different perspectives lead to different reactions and the balance between funny and shocked is different.

xtian wrote: WWII national socialism is not just an Halloween costume taken out of an old disney mythology

see, this is a vital difference between Europeans and Americans. to many over here, Nazism is indeed a costume, often (usually?) worn without any real understanding of its deeper, darker meaning. they know it offends some folks, but they really don't/can't fully understand why. a perfect example: the adoption of the "Iron Cross" motif by gangs in the 1960's.

i blame Hogan's Heroes.

12ci wrote:see, this is a vital difference between Europeans and Americans. to many over here, Nazism is indeed a costume, often (usually?) worn without any real understanding of its deeper, darker meaning. they know it offends some folks, but they really don't/can't fully understand why. a perfect example: the adoption of the "Iron Cross" motif by gangs in the 1960's.

xtian wrote:I understand your point and I agree that skull and crosses don't make you more of a nazi that moustache do and I enjoy lunacy myself, but it's not like he went into a giant yellow bird costume pulling his tamed girafe on a leach, WWII national socialism is not just an Halloween costume taken out of an old disney mythology, there were 65 millions dead in the process, real stinky rotten dead persons, and I think it is a danger to let any inbreed wear it like a hat and turn it into an empty decorum on the right to look silly, especially now that most kids have just about no clue about what it was and what happened,

Well, for starters, there is a reason that all the Polish branches of my family tree dead-end at the Atlantic, and his name was Adolf Hitler; turns out it actually had nothing to do with screendoors on submarines. So do please stop with the "you have no connection to this/you don't understand" crap. I had as much family in the European Theater as in the Pacific in the 1940s, every male related by blood and some of the women have served, making a mark on every American war since WWII and a few before, current conflicts included. War I get; which is why I am so ardent (stubborn) when it comes to defending the reasons for fighting from this great big chunk of yankee dirt, Life (freedom), Liberty, and Property (pursuit of happiness).

The iron cross, yes outlaw gangs along with their overall racist sociopathy adopted the Nazi Iron cross, but its a lot older than that, and is still a prominent part of the Bundeswehr. I've got to admit, working with the Luftwaffe has been just as much of mind fuck as working with the JASDF (Japan Air Self Defense Force). 99.9999% of the time great guys and great experiences to work with them, .0001% of the time you get that uneasy feeling, that historical muscle memory, that not long ago, our families were zestfully killing each other. In a similar thing as above though, I talked a Japanese Lt into walking into the nuc-weapons instructor office and yelling TORA TORA TORA on December 11th. We lit a candle on his desk the day of the Doolittle raid. It's part of our way to show we're done killing each other. The German officers, quite stereo-typically, have no sense of humor, so we just have fun at their expense. They loved it, really.

This situation is eating me for the same reason that the Boston Marathon alleged bomber's chase bothered me--blood lust. I get it, believe me I REALLY get it, but the world I want to raise my son in is where, despite the freedom to be an asshole, people on the whole choose not to be assholes. When someone is ACCUSED of being an asshole, they get a fair trial by their peers to determine if they are an asshole, and the intervention of the state is only on a temporary holding basis, pending the results of that trial. They have a right to Freedom and Liberty until a jury removes it. I use a friend of mine (non Ootmic) as my litmus, since she is even more of a honey badger than I am. At one point during the last time I saw her the Westboro Baptist church came up. And she (with intent to make an ass of me) asked what I thought about a soldier who knocked one of them out at a funeral and was subsequently not arrested. I said, the predictable (bait taking) good, fuck em. She responded with no its bullshit, that is assault, I don't care about the circumstances, the law is the law. After pondering, begrudgingly, I had to agree.

If the issue at hand is someone wearing a genocide hat, then the answer is not to remove the fool from the hat that another fool can then don, the answer is to educate the masses what the hat represents. If at all possible, educate the fool. We have holocaust museums here in the US, amid many other chilling historical sites full of interpretation for the masses. What kills me is the lack of masses. By impinging on this fuckstain's freedom my society lowers itself closer to his level. I find that unacceptable. What I would love to see is rather than a mob shaming, readying the ropes, and burning the effigies, use this guy like the moron-ienette he is, and as a catalyst for holocaust education. I learned much more about WWII from my family than I did from academia as a youth, which is a shame. That is a change that my country needs to identify by this douche and so many others. Not that we should attack the fuckheads with pointy sticks, but we should accelerate our efforts to nip dumbassery in the bud. It takes time and patience, and honestly no matter how hard you try a new breed of asshole will always come around--the rest of us will just have to continue to adjust course and take the highroad. But its always the right thing to do.

You make some very good points, MK3.
As much as this guy is trying to advertise nazi-ideology, he's also, perhaps more, advertising what an uneducated dumbshit he is.
Education is, indeed, the silver bullet, can't argue that. Suppressing any ideology will only drive it underground and embolden it's adherents. The only way to fight an ideology is to convince people that it's shit, not by just telling them not to follow it.

But, while letting this guy tell the world what an asshole he is may be the right way of doing things over in your place, as much as freedom of speech is important everywhere, we must have limits to that over here. Over here, running around like that is illegal, and if you try to name your kids like that, the people who type out and stamp the birth certificates will probably call other authorities immediately - it's illegal.

These limits exist for a good reason. As much as we must educate people, especially over here, and as much as we seem to repeatedly fail at that, those laws serve an important purpose. Even as the German legal system went out of it's way for decades to protect original nazis, we need these limits for more than practical reasons. So that people know that this isn't just our past - it's unacceptable in the present, it will not be allowed again, if you're into this crap, you've got an entire nation against you.
We don't do enough to educate people over here, or we don't do it right, we still end up driving asshats like that underground, there's enough of them running around. But letting them "celebrate German virtues and history" as they often put it won't educate people as much as give them permission to have that ideology.

Over here, nazism isn't just a set of opinions, an ideology. It's our crime, it's what will forever define us as a people, it's what we will never live down. And we shouldn't. Many people complain that they're not responsible for that stain, that it's unfair to keep harping on about it. But we must keep harping on about it, not just that it's wrong but why it's wrong.
Because while not responsible for what our families back then did, even a German born after it all is responsible to not let it be done again. Making sure any German knows that, no, this ideology and the symbolisms associated with it aren't acceptable is only step one. Because if running around like that was legal over here, most people wouldn't take seriously that it's bad. Because, if it were that bad, it wouldn't be legal, would it? That is how people over here see the world. They don't bother reflecting whether what they're doing is right or wrong, they just do what they like and then rationalize. A lack of prohibition is, for most, more than enough rationalization.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'd like to recognize nazis at a glance. I once spent several of the weekly meeting of the political troupe I was running with sitting at a table with one, a particularly bad one even. He was trying to subvert lefties to try some recruitment, and only when he struck us as odder and odder did we do research. If he hadn't been elected to city council in his hometown, we probably would never have rooted him out. But on the other hand, that's the dangerous sort of fascist, unlike this guy. He wouldn't have worn a swastika armband or the like, even had he been permitted, because he knew better than even to speak his filth.

Enough people still congregate in "Kammeradschaften" and other groups built around the ideals of the original nazis, enough people who follow fascist ideologies in parties like the NPD. That's where the education fails. But letting anyone publicly advertise like this shithead is just granting 'em a permission they must never, never get.

If you Americans decide that freedom is important enough to you to let this guy do this crap, that's what you've gotta decide for yourself, and I respect that. As long as you're actually sincere about it, like that honey badger friend of your's, MK3, and like you yourself seem to be, I will even respect you for that.

I'm sorry I rambled on a bit here, but I felt these things had to be said.
This guy in particular, I still don't think taking away his kids is justified just on ideological grounds (the domestic violence etc. being another question). But giving him every other misery short of prison or physical violence is plenty justified. As long as you make sure not to make him look like the underdog, people tend to root for those.

ok then. let nazies the right to be nazies based on respect of freedom. I apologise to all nazies for being an intolerant bastard .

The thought coming to mind for me is that the actions of people like this, rewarded with the attention they crave, are a part of the difficult unfairness of 'asymmetrical' reactions in the world. One shitty bird with good aim can ruin a whole punch bowl, and one shitty bomber with good timing can destroy so much life and property. Do 'asymmetrical' and 'unfair' mean the same thing? I suppose they kinda do, unless somehow the perspective can be expanded or shifted to include more than just the moment of shit. I consider it hugely, cosmically unfair that the thoughtless actions of one can cause the thoughtful to tie themselves in knots.

Philosophically I think this person should be banished. Not jailed, executed, or otherwise punished within society, but physically forced out of it. Be what you are- just not here any longer, best of luck and farewell. In reality, our world is too small and our civilized global society too interconnected for this to really happen. There are no continents left to be banishing destinations. Maybe technology will eventually make it possible send him to another planet.

Pattio wrote:Philosophically I think this person should be banished. Not jailed, executed, or otherwise punished within society, but physically forced out of it. Be what you are- just not here any longer, best of luck and farewell. In reality, our world is too small and our civilized global society too interconnected for this to really happen. There are no continents left to be banishing destinations. Maybe technology will eventually make it possible send him to another planet.

Not too long ago its what we used Australia for.

DG- we have other similar struggles here, and its always a debate of where to draw the line of free speech vs hate speech, heritage vs cultural intolerance. In America's short time on this earth we have irrevocably damaged, removed, murdered, etc a number of native societies, and more than a few times pissed into the wind. How we cope with it is not a resolved question. As a kid I had, and have still found similar versions of the "Indian bow and arrow" that came with feathers and a little suction-cup on a stick. Opinions among the Native American communities range from outrage to meh on this and a hundred other things. Sports logos have been at issue (and being changed) for the last two decades or so. Most Americans have no idea we had concentration camps during WWII full of Americans of Japanese descent. Even fewer remember the controversy over whether or not it was okay for Catholic JFK to be president. Our take has always come back to freedom, but we sinusoidally muck it all up every couple of decades (starting with the alien and sedition acts and getting weirder through the present) . We do seem to generally be moving in a positive direction, but we'll never be perfect.

Mk3 wrote:

Pattio wrote:Philosophically I think this person should be banished. Not jailed, executed, or otherwise punished within society, but physically forced out of it. Be what you are- just not here any longer, best of luck and farewell. In reality, our world is too small and our civilized global society too interconnected for this to really happen. There are no continents left to be banishing destinations. Maybe technology will eventually make it possible send him to another planet.

Not too long ago its what we used Australia for.

DG- we have other similar struggles here, and its always a debate of where to draw the line of free speech vs hate speech, heritage vs cultural intolerance. In America's short time on this earth we have irrevocably damaged, removed, murdered, etc a number of native societies, and more than a few times pissed into the wind. How we cope with it is not a resolved question. As a kid I had, and have still found similar versions of the "Indian bow and arrow" that came with feathers and a little suction-cup on a stick. Opinions among the Native American communities range from outrage to meh on this and a hundred other things. Sports logos have been at issue (and being changed) for the last two decades or so. Most Americans have no idea we had concentration camps during WWII full of Americans of Japanese descent. Even fewer remember the controversy over whether or not it was okay for Catholic JFK to be president. Our take has always come back to freedom, but we sinusoidally muck it all up every couple of decades (starting with the alien and sedition acts and getting weirder through the present) . We do seem to generally be moving in a positive direction, but we'll never be perfect.

That is what I meant by different views from different perspectives and in no way "you have no connection to this/you don't understand" crap. I don't think I force my way around here with an old european superiority complex or ever said anything like that at all.
It was discussed before that we see the rise of nations as people regrouping to unite and consider that the community as a duty to regulate the elements that might endanger society since community as also a principle of solidarity that we call socialism inherited from workers unions, while USA built his evolution (truly or in mythology I let you decide) on individual conquest (as in land of opportunities) and still let the individual take his decisions even if the whole community has to deal with the consequences, as seen in free market and other sectors.