A question of ethics

[Sisyphus]

Thought I'd throw this out to my moral superiors to see what you all think. I'm in a bit of a dilemma. We've been pitched a job worth a few thousand bucks, certainly we'd be happy to do it but there are a few hitches:
The customer is a former employer of mine. They're an NPO (nonprofit 501c), and have been operating on the same level of performance more or less since 1995 ish. We'll call them Party A
Their former supplier, for whom they would ordinarily ask to do this work, is my wife's former employer who has been a fine, upstanding decent member of the community and to whom we owe a lot. Let's call him Party B.
Here's the deal. Party A owes party B about $10,000 and has for some time. This, I think, is why we've been approached. He won't do the work for them. So now they're hoping to get us for a few thousand bucks. I've had to lawyer up in the past to get them to pay me about $11,000 on another job.

So. I'm thinking, and this may be out of line, but I'm thinking that maybe I should tell party A that I won't start work on their project until party B is paid in full. It probably looks like none of my business, but they're habitual offenders and chances are they won't pay me anyway either. But still. Party B is a good guy and his relationship with A has been abused. Should I just say, "well, I don't know how he let himself get into them for 10k so fast, but that's his problem if thats how he wants to run his business."

I can't afford to lay out a few thousand bucks to do this job and not get paid for nine months or a year or whatever.

thoughts? opinions?

[Bigshankhank]

You say Party A has been difficult to get payment from in the past? And that you have a good working relationship with Party B? Does B know that A has approached you for this work? I would keep an open line of communication with the better of your clients (B) in regards to this work. If it doesn't bother them, and you are willing to do the work at risk of not being paid as per your prior experience with A, then do the work. Its hard to turn down work, but like I said I would be upfront with all parties involved.

[GeekGrl]

Leave Party B out of your response. Even if you go in with good intentions of trying to help out Party B, they may not appreciate having their business dealings (such as failure to receive payment) used in such a manner. Would you even have that knowledge without your wife's personal connection to the company? Probably not.

Since there's already a past history with Party A of non-payment to YOU, then you simply cite a need to have payment made upfront before you undertake the work. Don't go into their need to pay someone else, you honestly do NOT have all the information about that situation, and I can envision a lot of negative backlash from raising that issue with them.

[Pintgudge]

It sounds like your prospective client just doesn't like to pay his bills.

You should ask for your total price up front, or don't take the job, because you have two instances of his failure to pay.

If you must give an explanation, only use your case, one instance of failure to pay is more than enough to be leery.

[Sisyphus]

Pretty much looks like we're going to demand payment in full before delivery, with a nonrefundable deposit on materials. Party B is aware of what's going on. I used to work for him as well, but my wife is the personal link, he was like a father figure to her.
We've also purchased fair and square equipment from him in the past that makes us directly competitive, but we've always given him right of first refusal. He sends a lot of work our way. All that being said, I'm pretty sure Party A will be aware that the terms we give them are a direct result of past dealings, etc.

[calamari kid]

Business is business. If B is the decent sounding fellow you paint him to be, I can't imagine he'd begrudge you the opportunity, and risk, of taking the job. Leveraging your willingness to do the work against the debt to B feels like a bad mix of personal and business to me.

As far as taking the job goes, I wouldn't touch it without at least having a deposit for covering expenses up front, but would push for payment in full. Your work and time is valuable. There's no sense burning that off for free if there are more reliable opportunities available. If you're not getting something else for it, exposure, experience, etc., I'd just walk away.

sledit: I was typing while you were posting. Sounds like a solid plan.

[xtian]

sounds pretty clear to me too, party A has to pay in advance because of his past debts, and party B could know that you took the job as he usually knows that you do jobs in his line of work and you are not in direct competition as far as I understand. In my line of work, we all pretty much do about the same jobs for a limited numbers of clients, so it's good to share infos and tips about them before and after a job is done, it avoids some of us to run straight into the pit and it keeps the prices decent for all of us. well ... most of us.

[DerGolgo]

Up front payment, yep.
Maybe, if your wife has a good relationship with party B, you might want to consider subtly letting party B know that party A is raising that kind of cash for paying up front.
Party B might otherwise be unappreciative of his delinquent customer being able to pay you, while he's still out of pocket. Don't want something like that throwing a dark shadow on a friendship.

[Sisyphus]

Truth be told this isn't the first time he's found himself in this position. I'm just going to stay out of it and stick with the terms I've given them, if they have any issues any other sailmaker in the area has also heard about their transgressions.
It's a small world.