UTMC

Posted: **Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:02 am**

I just threw this up on Facebook, but shall do so here, also.
After all I had given my word as a gentleman, to a lady no less, that I'd "tell the Americans". And I suspect there may still be one or two here who do not frequent the Zuckerberg's terrible lair.
So I must.

I wrote:My dear American friends,

I was asked to tell you something.
Our tale begins with a young man of Persian extraction, not long in Germany and not entirely familiar with out language at that point. As these things happen, he broke the inner-tube of one of the tires on his bicycle. He needed a new one but, as yet not quite familiar with the language, he showed the broken tube to a friend and asked what it's called.
Un-empathic yet ever precise, as we Germans are, he informed the young man it's called "Gummi".
So, the young Persian man walked into a store and asked the lady cashier for a Gummi. Seeing the minuscule item she then produced, he was perplexed. This had to be the wrong size!
He was informed that, in fact, one size fits all.
For the colloquial "Gummi" will not just translate quite correctly to "Rubber" in the English, we Germans use the term in the same way the Americans do to the eternal consternation of any of her Majesty's subjects who need to fix a mistake made by pencil.
It was this confounding difference in nomenclature that had prompted a very charming British lady to regale me with the story of our hapless Persian.
Standing in two different grocery stores in two different towns, I had been introduced to her on the phone and we came to talk about the American national ethos.
Particularly, that your nation is apparently build on "Mom and apple-pie and all that". Or something of that nature.
The charming lady asked me to tell you ("the Americans...") that, no, your nation is NOT built on apple pie.
It's apple CAKE.
It's sweet, not savory. Pies have things like beans, mushrooms, steak and kidney or minced beef in them. Pies are savory.
The sweet stuff is cake.
She was very particular about that, and that you Americans needed to be told. Apple cake, not apple pie.
It may be round, like pie, but it is cake, she was sure.

As it is, before anyone devolves into a debate about authority in definition, about American superficiality vs. old-world obsessions with substance, or about old-world authoritarianism expressed through such substance talk vs. American honest egalitarianism taking things at face value, before this inevitable debate erupts, be assured:
I'm only passing this along. I don't care. I like cake. I like pie. One is the main course, the other for desert. Can't we all just eat along?

Posted: **Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:49 am**

See, our menu has always been sorely lacking in savory meat pies.

We are offered little chicken pot pies or beef pot pies. Buy them frozen and bake and serve. They're alright, but the concept could go so much further than that, and I guess in Europe, it does.

Thinking about it makes me salivate.

Posted: **Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:02 pm**

A british lady said this? That's weird, because in England an apple pie is called apple pie.

Posted: **Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:20 pm**

rolly wrote:A british lady said this? That's weird, because in England an apple pie is called apple pie.

I was reasonably certain I recalled it like that, also.
Perhaps she has been in Germany for too long and has caught our precision bug.
But based on the rest of the conversation, it did sound like she generally blamed the application of pie to this item on "you Americans", she was quite unwavering in that regard. Perhaps, she assigns the blame for the British use of that term on 'mericans, also ...
What do you Canadians call it?
BTW, I went past the train station today, and a new eatery has opened up there ... apparently their specialties are various varieties of what they describe as "poutine" ... didn't see any cheese or gravy, though, really just some kind of meat and veg on a bed of french-fries ... is it poutine with neither gravy nor cheese? Is it pie with no meat or veg, just fruit?

Pintgudge wrote: They're alright, but the concept could go so much further than that, and I guess in Europe, it does.

Not as far as one might wish, actually ... if I want a real Brit style pie, and can't make one myself (yep, that's me, utter kitchen spazz), my only option is mail-ordering the tinned Fray Bentos variety. Which isn't nearly as appetizing as even Tesco's deep-freezer pie ...
We do have a few things with meat in a yeast dough, not unlike shepherd's pie, but those are rare.
However, we have a HUGE Turkish community.
They have Börek.
Which is puff-pastry, nice and oily and all, filled with all sort of loveliness ... cheese and spinach, or ground beef ... there's that one bit of Turkey that's west of the Bosporus, so I guess you can technically count it as European ... the fillings are just the variations you can get at any individual Turkish diner. There are differences based on shape, exact mode of preparation, some of them differ from one to another region of Turkey.

Posted: **Sat Aug 22, 2015 2:11 pm**

Anyone who can win a war on their own is welcome to return to their own linguistic traditions.

Posted: **Sat Aug 22, 2015 7:52 pm**

cake (kāk)
n. A sweet baked food made of flour, liquid, eggs, and other ingredients, such as raising agents and flavorings.

from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 4th Edition

like this:

pie (pī)

n. A baked food composed of a pastry shell filled with fruit, meat, cheese, or other ingredients, and usually covered with a pastry crust.

from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 4th Edition

like this
sweet (fruit):

savory (meat):

Posted: **Sat Aug 22, 2015 7:56 pm**

and now i'm hungry

Posted: **Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:46 am**

In America, we like to have our cake and eat it too! Even if it's a pie. (Europeans, sheesh, if it has a crust, it's a pie, frosting is a cake!)

Posted: **Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:16 am**

goose wrote: (Europeans, sheesh, if it has a crust, it's a pie, frosting is a cake!)

Okay!
Now, here's a perfectly valid, reasonably, comprehensible and adequately concise definition of pie or cake!
Trust the lawyer to work this out.

Posted: **Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:31 am**

Don't forget these tasty bits from Jamaica!

Posted: **Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:41 am**

goose wrote:In America, we like to have our cake and eat it too! Even if it's a pie. (Europeans, sheesh, if it has a crust, it's a pie, frosting is a cake!)

Derp, what about cookie cake?

Posted: **Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:42 am**

Ice cream cake?

Posted: **Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:18 pm**

Bigshankhank wrote:
goose wrote:In America, we like to have our cake and eat it too! Even if it's a pie. (Europeans, sheesh, if it has a crust, it's a pie, frosting is a cake!)
Derp, what about cookie cake?

It's simply a cookie baked by some lazy ass mfer that didn't want to roll the dough up into balls and press. Not a pie, not a cake . . . . just a big f'n cookie!

See, even ice cream cakes have frosting. Yes, you can bake a cake that has no frosting, but that's just a big muffin. Definition of muffin, a cake without anything redeemable err frosting.

Posted: **Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:58 am**

12ci wrote:and now i'm hungry

Yeah, same here.

Posted: **Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:39 am**

Posted: **Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:35 am**

cheesecake? it has crust and no frosting, and is therefore a pie. but it's a cake.

cookie cakes often have frosting or icing, but are not cakes. they are bar cookies that have not yet been cut up.

also, for the savory side: crawfish pie. mmmm.

ow, my head's all explody.

Posted: **Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:50 am**

thack wrote:cheesecake? it has crust and no frosting, and is therefore a pie. but it's a cake.

cookie cakes often have frosting or icing, but are not cakes. they are bar cookies that have not yet been cut up.

also, for the savory side: crawfish pie. mmmm.

ow, my head's all explody.

Cheesecake is actually a "Custard Pie"

A "Cake" is a risen pastry generally light in nature, "Pie" is a filled pastry that is not of a risen nature. A "Brownie" is an unrisen "Cake". A "Quiche" is a savory "Custard Pie".

All Cakes and Pies are Pastries.

Posted: **Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:34 am**

Speaking with my wife the cake decorator;

A pie is finished BEFORE it is baked.
A cake is finished AFTER it is baked.

Posted: **Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:07 pm**

I think at this juncture I shall collect my testicles and cease posting in this thread. good day gentlemen.

Posted: **Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:19 am**

I also find myself hungry after reading this thread.

Posted: **Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:43 am**

Mk3 wrote:I think at this juncture I shall collect my testicles and cease posting in this thread. good day gentlemen.

Whaat? Dude, men make excellent bakers, no need to fear for your masculinity. Think about it, if the butcher, baker and candlestick maker weren't all dudes, that would be a much more interesting party instead of the sausage-fest everyone thinks about when they hear that verse.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:34 pm**

I'm thinking this whole thing can be illustrated in a Venn diagram. It could even be a dynamic one that accounts for geographic location and then it would be like a Babel fish stuck to your eye. I think the key here is that as long as you specify pie/cake/quiche/brownie/roll/calzone/canoli/sandwich/etc as savory or sweet, it's hard to be disappointed. I need to go raid the fridge now in search of satisfaction.

BTW, would a brownie be considered a luxurious chocolate matzoh?

Posted: **Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:22 pm**

Beemer Dan wrote:BTW, would a brownie be considered a luxurious chocolate matzoh?

don't think so. mine have leavening and take 45 minutes to bake.

now these might, on the other hand:

UTMC

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