Starting From Scratch (new garage/shop)

[Bo_9]

So if you could start with a blank slate what would you be sure to include or remove from your work space. I'm getting the opportunity to build a whole new shop in the back yard of the house we just bought to get closer to work and the kids school. City has approved a 30x50 footprint with 12 foot sidewalls, lot layout dictates that street access overhead doors will be on the narrow end. Current plans include a small restroom but we haven't decided if it will be raised to limit what has to be poured in the concrete or not, so any input there would be good.
In the current 20x20 (that is stuffed to the gills) we fix bikes (gas and pedal), cars, and whatever other odd projects (3d printers, rc cars, model rockets, random electronic products). Don't do any work for anyone else anymore, so none of that drama to deal with.
So any input for things you'd want to include or leave out let me know.

[Bigshankhank]

I built a small workshop years ago at my old house and these are the things I either regret not doing, or am glad I did when I built it;
-Go ahead and plumb underslab for the restroom.
-Make provisions for adding solar panels (roof framing reinforcing, transfer switch at the panel, racks for storage batteries). Free electricity is fun.
-I would plumb air lines with a 240v dedicated plug, good manifold and moisture separator. If you don't already have a compressor, it would be handy to be able to simply plug and play when the time comes rather than plumb it all later.
-Add plenty of blocking in the wall framing for adding wall hung shelves and hooks. Also, consider having a wall mounted TV and/or computer monitor somewhere and put blocking inside the wall to hang the required bracket. More blocking is better.
-Get a wifi repeater/signal booster so you can connect to the router inside your house.
-You can never have enough light.

[Mk3]

- drive through, or at least two sided access big enough for modest vehicles (bikes, small tractor, etc)
- HVAC that does well with cold starts (unless in constant use, than just HVAC) but plumbed in regardless.
- insulated roof & walls
- Lofted storage
- Hot water (on demand systems would be perfect)
- service door next to or integrated with big door (less area to keep clear)
- Windows...goddamn windows so you aren't a garagelodyte--maybe glass block though
- repeat for plumb every goddamn thing, and supply power liberally
- I'm a huge fan of pegboard, and prefer it to cabinets, but regardless, plan storage in with your plumbing
- a crap catcher right outside the door. I used to have a hell of a time sweeping out my shop, only to wind up with crap in my gravel driveway that was now harder to remove, or whatever fluid leaking into said driveway. that house aught to be a superfund site.
- an exhaust vent where an exhaust hose can attach to run vehicles in a closed space. I had this in ND and it was a quite likely a literal life saver
- a good exhaust system, so as to not get high on every chemical warning one disobeys regarding a well ventilated area
- pull down power cable(s) this can reduce the amount of plumbed wire (plumb it anyway) but moreover will reduce the electrical cord nightmare octopus that typically consumes space and unintentionally ignites starting fluid when you trip over this or that goddamn thing you don't even remember bringing into the shop in the first place
- gutters
- dream shop: plumbed in vacuum system too. completely overkill, had it in High School shop, never stopped wanting 20 years later.


Donts
- I would avoid barn doors. Snow blocks them, wind rips them off, they close like shit, the list goes on
- if possible, nothing with a pilot light...we'll call that induced baldness
- not at-grade (so DO be above grade) more than just water, dirt and all hosts of things get in
- don't cheap out on the service doors
- I'd avoid low windows. If you can hit them with a board, you will undoubtedly hit them........with a board
- Overly complicated stupid shit. If you can't explain it in one sentence, it's probably a bad idea for a shop

[AZRider]

More plumbed in air lines than you think you need.
More electrical outlets than you think you need.
More electrical outlets than that.
General purpose lighting and task lighting.
At least one work station with an overhead chain hoist.
Enough shelving that your workbenches don't become storage.
Separate places to do wood and metal fabrication so you don't get sawdust in your metalwork or metal chips in your woodwork.

[Bo_9]

Seems to be some common themes running here. I should have put more detail in my initial post so here goes.

Lighting - Planning on 4ft strip lights 4500 lumen LED T8 type bulbs, about 30 to start and add more as necessary. Current source is - http://www.ledlightingwholesaleinc.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; as recommended at GarageJournal.com.

Electrical outlets - In the current shop I have duplex outlets every 3ft (4ft up from floor) two circuits per wall to stagger the outlets so will probably follow suit in the new one but have four circuits on the long walls. Plus outlets in the ceiling and cord reels on each side of the "car" area.

Air - Had not given this much thought, but now I think I could plumb that in the entire perimeter with a tee at each 6 or 4ft junction and even if they are plugged it would make for easy addition of a line in the future. With 12ft walls I should have plenty of space to put that at a level above any cabinets. l I have a decent vertical tank compressor and will be running it on a dedicated circuit. Will add hose reels by each overhead door. Just need new filters for my separators.
Opinions needed on "black pipe" vs PVC for air...

Insulation - I'm having the guys "ladder girt" between the posts which will give me horizontal 2ft spaces for putting in standard fiberglass batts without me having to spend the time to frame each section between the posts. Once the ceiling drywall is up and all the electric and ductwork is happy there is a local company that will come in and do blown in cellulose I just have to staple up vapor barrier before the drywall. Once that is done it will be as insulated as most houses here.

Windows - This is a pain point for me as I don't like to have windows at ground level and rarely ever leave my overhead doors open for more than moving things in and out. Having had break-ins and stolen bikes before I hate to advertise what is in there. But with 12ft walls I can put windows up under the eaves but then opening and closing them becomes and issue. Any ideas on windows that can be up at 10ft and opened from the ground with little hassle?

HVAC - Will be putting in ducts for a forced air "packaged" system that has the furnace and AC all outside and ducted in. A common retrofit setup here, but will let me add it later, and lose zero floorspace. hope to keep it just above freezing during winter with that, and have a backup gas heater in the wet room for power outages. Oh and a couple ceiling fans.

Doors - Three total 10x10 insulated overhead doors with extended tracks to put the doors on the ceiling when open and side mount openers to leave space for a four post lift later. Two doors on the narrow "street" end and one in the middle into the back yard. Walk in door next to back yard facing OH door.

Wifi - Will have conduit in the trench with the water gas run from the house so I can run Ethernet from the house router to the shop router. Similar setup is already in place running the "entertainment system" in the current shop. Have a PC with a TV as one monitor on the wall and another 20inch display for looking up parts. This may get a TV size upgrade and better sound as we go.

Shelving - No ideas there yet, not a fan of wall mounted cabinets. All of my current shelves are five shelf, six foot tall and on wheels, but they are old and need replaced. Will probably setup some overhead loft storage above the wet room and in the "wood" area.

Hoist- I've never needed a chain hoist, but I have a 1ton "cherry picker" crane for moving engines that gets the "put heavy stuff on the table" job.

Input greatly appreciated! Thanks!

[Bigshankhank]

Something to consider with that many receptacles planned and the accompanying circuitry, get a label maker and label each cover plate with the corresponding circuit in the breaker panel. Maybe you'll never trip a breaker, but its nice to know eactly which one popped when it does happen. Since you'll only have one panel in this building, simply opening the panel cover will reveal the tripped breaker, but this literally costs nothing and makes it look fancy.

[Bo_9]

Something to consider with that many receptacles planned and the accompanying circuitry, get a label maker and label each cover plate with the corresponding circuit in the breaker panel. Maybe you'll never trip a breaker, but its nice to know eactly which one popped when it does happen. Since you'll only have one panel in this building, simply opening the panel cover will reveal the tripped breaker, but this literally costs nothing and makes it look fancy.

Good point. I have a couple label makers and a fancy wire specific label maker I can borrow from work.

[Bo_9]

Spent some quality time talking to the plumber this afternoon about getting the necessary stuff under the slab and pumps and all that fun stuff. Doesn't sound took bad. Also found out that I have free use of an electrician as a perk from work, which is surprising and awesome.
Still working out the last of the quote on the building and as of now the earliest they will have it stayed is end of May...

[AZRider]

Sounds like you have this well in hand.
Windows: casement windows are available with a socket instead of a crank handle, and they sell a telescoping pole crank. Usually used for skylights, but also available for exactly what you are doing. Contact Paper comes in a translucent plastic with a diamond pattern that I have applied to our bathroom windows, looks like fancy frosted glass. Perfect for privacy with light transmission.
Air line: PVC is clearly labeled not for use with compressed air. Where I work, the whole building is plumbed with 1/2 inch Schedule 40 and it's been OK for a decade at 110 PSI. Cheap and easy to splice in extras, so long as it doesn't explode.
Shelving: I like some small-bin shelving. The stuff is expensive unless you get it used. I have found it at used office furniture places and used industrial equipment places for cheap. If you don't get bins with the shelving, Uline sells lots of sizes. I have one 4ft wide x 1ft deep x 7ft tall unit with shelves just far apart enough for the bins. Plastic are nice but I got the cardboard and am satisfied. 4in wide bins on half the shelves, 8in on the rest.
The chain hoist is handy when you need to hold something up for a while. Guzzi clutch jobs require hoisting the bike up from the transmission, and it usually hangs for at least a day. Longer if you discover additional work needed. Once, we got so crowded that we stored a bike that was waiting for backordered parts by slinging it from the chain hoist and running it up to the ceiling.
Don't forget a slop sink.

[Bo_9]

Finally found a place that makes the stuff to crank open high windows. http://www.truth.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AZRider]

Sorry. You can buy any casement window that you like, then add the correct size adapter and pole, such as this:
https//www.amazon.com/Telescoping-Skylight-Pol ... B0051OEW72

[wyckedsin]

I recently saw a shop layout that struck a chord. The gentleman who had it built is disabled and requires the use of a walker. What he chose to do for the bathroom to keep it small is to have the Toilet Installed in a rectangular shower pan and a small bar sink is located just under the shower head. He has needed to use the shower for emergency rinses twice now from spilling chemicals onto his legs. He sits on the toilet and uses the handwand from the shower to rinse with.

If I get to visit him any time soon, I will try and get a picture of the layout. In essence though, it was the size of your typical RV bathroom, but had more overall room in the shower should you decide to use it for clean up. He also has an apartment style stacked washer/dryer plumbed on the backside of the shower wall to share the sewer and water feeds with the bar sink.

[Bo_9]

Well, we are moved into the house and the contract with the building guys is signed (with 20% non-refundable down payment).
What we'll have is a 30x50 building with 12 foot ceilings. Two 8x10 overhead doors on the narrow (street) side, one 8x10 overhead door centered on the house-facing side (into the back yard) along with the walk in door. Four three-foot awning windows on the opposite long wall installed at 10ft. Have the plumber lined out to rough in for the 6x7 bathroom (sink/tub/shower). Have the builders putting in "ladder" girts so I will not have to spend time framing the inside and ca go straight to wiring. Also have the tree removal set (mid sized oak tree sadly needs completely removed). Now I just need to get the base rock ordered, 30tons! and get a shed torn down/removed. Building set to start last week of July.

[jae]

I'm sure it's impolite to ask, but I'd be really curious to see a cost breakdown once you're done, including any permitting, etc. stuff you had to deal with. I'm looking at moving onto an acre lot fairly soon and building a shop is part of the negotiation with my wife. I've looked into buying pre-fab steel buildings but I'm sure that's just a fraction of the overall cost.

[Bo_9]

Full disclosure for jae (or anyone else interested)

Spoiler

Show

Small town so permitting is already done and cost a whopping $75. Don't have the cost on the windows yet, but the post-frame building with all the doors, 4inches of concrete, roof trusses on 2 foot centers, and 2x6 "ladder" girts is landing between $24-28K here in the armpit of the plains. Tree removal along with cleaning up some others around the house is $800. Rough plumbing the slab for shower sink and toilet, and pump will be around $1k then trenching to the house to get water, sewer, gas, and 2 inch conduit for internet and security wires will be another $5k. I still have the 30tons of base rock to order. Once the building is up I'll be starting the electrical, more insulation and all the interior stuff.

[Bigshankhank]

We have recently begun embarking on the notion of preliminary discussions to enact a plan to consider the possibility of buying land and building a house on it.
Jae, when you say pre-fab buildings, what do you mean? We are seriously considering intermodal shipping containers as they are cheap, meet local building codes, and have a certain industrial flair that the wife and I enjoy. This means an absolute shit-ton of work on my part, but at the same time I am looking forward to the challenge. I figure all-in based on early estimate we can get on a piece of land and living in this thing in 6-8 months for around $110-$120k. This is a full house with detached carhold, mind you. This also assumes that I, a professional manager of people who build things, will actually be building a lot of this. So if noone sees me here for a while, well you will find me with a toolbelt on.

[Jaeger]

We have recently begun embarking on the notion of preliminary discussions to enact a plan to consider the possibility of buying land and building a house on it. ...
...So if noone sees me here for a while, well you will find me with a toolbelt on.

Goddamn! Good luck, man!

And under $150k? That including the property itself or simply materials, labor (if any), etc.?

(If so, fuck me, I gotta get the fuck out of NoVA! )

Where ya talkin', and how deep under water will you be when the hurricane hits?

--Jaeger

[Bo_9]

Shipping Containers!
I have always thought that Flynn's house from the new Tron would be awesome. Five containers, three on top spanning two on the bottom with full width overhead doors on both ends.

[Bigshankhank]

Shipping Containers!
I have always thought that Flynn's house from the new Tron would be awesome. Five containers, three on top spanning two on the bottom with full width overhead doors on both ends.

Fuck that, that would mean climbing stairs. We are thinking more of an "L" shape, maybe even a slightly obtuse angle just to make cutting the containers more of a hassle.

[jae]

Jae, when you say pre-fab buildings, what do you mean?

I'd considered building out of 53" high cube containers before, but in this case I mean the steel buildings that are designed with door and window holes cut, shipped in pieces and you put them together like a giant lego set. I've found a few fairly useful design tools around the internet that will let you put in reference models (like scale trucks, humans) to help visualize the actual size. Beyond that though, I didn't realize "used" steel buildings were a thing until just recently. Most that I've seen are actually buildings that were designed for a customer and then either never delievered, or delivered and never built. Seems like significant savings, assuming you could find one that matched your needs.

[Bigshankhank]

So, to be clear you didn't really mean 4'-5" in height, correct? Cause that would be in-funcking-sane.

[jae]

So, to be clear you didn't really mean 4'-5" in height, correct? Cause that would be in-funcking-sane.

haha, yes, I meant 53 foot (4'-5" long would be a Tiny Shop to tow behind your Tiny House) high-cube, which is a foot taller inside than a standard container.

http://containertech.com/container-sale ... -domestic/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A 53ft shipping container | storage container is considered a High Cube container. High Cube shipping containers | storage containers are 9ft 6in tall on the exterior. They are 1ft taller than standard height containers. They are also 8ft 6in wide, making them 6in wider than standard containers as well.

[Bigshankhank]

Figured. We are looking at 40'x9'-6" containers. Getting them is easy, financing the build is proving to be a sticky wicket.

[12ci]

WORTHY OF ITS OWN THREAD

We have recently begun embarking on the notion of preliminary discussions to enact a plan to consider the possibility of buying land and building a house on it.
Jae, when you say pre-fab buildings, what do you mean? We are seriously considering intermodal shipping containers as they are cheap, meet local building codes, and have a certain industrial flair that the wife and I enjoy. This means an absolute shit-ton of work on my part, but at the same time I am looking forward to the challenge. I figure all-in based on early estimate we can get on a piece of land and living in this thing in 6-8 months for around $110-$120k. This is a full house with detached carhold, mind you. This also assumes that I, a professional manager of people who build things, will actually be building a lot of this. So if noone sees me here for a while, well you will find me with a toolbelt on.

altho the cynic in me keeps thinking I've seen this on HGTV....

[Bo_9]

Tree guys doing their thing.

[Bo_9]

Tree guys will be done next week and the excavator guy is lined up behind them to dig out the stump, remove a small shed and it's slab, and backfill with gravel.

[jae]

nice. we're scheduled to close on our new house on june 13th and I'm looking to start on a shop myself as soon as financially possible

[Bo_9]

So far in my life I've bought three houses and this last one was by far the most complicated as apparently they have tightened up all kinds of requirements for lenders.

[mtne]

Way late to the show..........

Radiant heat in the floors. Pex is cheap, put it in.

Thickened slab plan in an apropriate area for a 2 or 4 post lift.

[Bo_9]

I went through the cost to hear the slab and for the pex and insulation under it would be more than a central heat and air unit. I really wanted to go that route but that big of a price tag for just heat didn't add up. I did verify with two different four post lift suppliers that the reinforced for info slab I'll have is sufficient to use their lifts. Ink not messing with a two post because it'll be used as a parking lift most of the time.