Pearl Harbor day.......

[Rock]

Dec. 7, 1941 was the original day of infamy. Beemer Dan and I were among the masses and not one mention of it was made. stupid humans....

[Beemer Dan]

We were constantly reminded that santa claus would be coming to town however

[Bigshankhank]

Even local NPR morning radio failed to mention it, although Dec. 7th is the birthday of some obscure Tampa city coucilman from the 60's, even though the guy is dead now. I was pretty pissed after that.

[SomeMook]

WTF dude? Can we have a somber moment without political bullshit?

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[sun rat]

when is it ok to let something like that go? ever?

i know that in my own family(grandparents) the day is very important but it's memory does nothing in my own family but perpetuate racism against the japanese, and blind nationalism, which both japan and germany were themselves plagued with.

war is hell. it's much more hell for some people than others, though.

[Rock]

In response to Rev. - Last year in a mall in Toledo most of the stores had Arizona memorial pics and some reference to Pearl Harbor. The 5 min story on the news is decent, but for what the event was it deserves to be remembered.

In response to abraxas - You are a South African, so your grand parents never told you what it meant, what it caused and how the country was affected. It is easy to cast dispersions on a web page but the US is my home and will be my home and its history as good and bad as it is is part of me and why i do what i do now.

[Zer0]

it's memory does nothing in my own family but perpetuate racism against the japanese, and blind nationalism, which both japan and germany were themselves plagued with..

I'm reminded of my senior year in high school when on Dec. 7, my history teacher called up a Japanese exchange student to the front of the room, and gave him the opportunity to apologize. He was confounded and flustered, at which time our teacher directed the rest of us to throw paper wads at him.

Needless to say, some of us were absofuckinglutely stunned. Others loved it and fired away. After it was all finished, Yoshi just sat down and quietly cried in his seat, then muttered something in Japanese. Then another student asked when was the day we celebrate all the sneak attacks, broken treaties and subjugation of the Indians by us, and the anniversary of the day slaves were brought here. No answer, but he wasn't there long enough to hear one because he was on his way to the principal's office.

That kind of shit was allowed in 1980, and I still can't believe it.

Dec. 7 is a day we really got fucked, but I think the number of years that have passed, combined with all the shit our counrty has pulled on just about every group of non-white people in this country alone puts all these acts of violence into perspective. There is an embarassingly huge number of people our own country has victimized. Call it karma, whatever, but we, like everyone else, have been collectively victimized, while still harboring skeletons in our closet.

I'd like to see a day set aside when we simply contemplate all the reckless hatred and violence we have experienced (on both ends), simply that, and see where it takes us. It'll never happen though.

But I still observed Dec. 7 because I like my country.

[Flat_Black_Rat]

RevCBL: I know people die every die for countless reasons, but those whose sign there lives over to Uncle Sam to serve the masses do deserve a beer raised in there honor or a hat tipped in there memory. They made the dersion that some things are worth more than there lone life and risked it all for everyone, and they will forever have my graditude.

SunRat: The blind nationalize and hatred you speak of is what helped our service men and women do there jobs and get on with there lives. But then again I am sure you think we were wrong in dropping the atomic bombs and have failed to read enough histroy to see that countless lives on both sides were saved by that move.

I do not mean to be an asshole, but it seems that people are to ready to throw the vetrens aside due to the politics that cause them to fight. War is an extension of politics by other means. Though of us who are in uniform or have been in uniform seem to be the only ones that understand that anymore.

[SomeMook]

abraxas, you apologize and repeat the same shit a paragraph later. Please if you want to start a thread on how Pearl Harbor et al. was an inside job, by all means, start a new fucking thread. Don't do it here. You're mentality is similar to those who hold up "Thank God for dead soldiers." signs at soldiers' funerals. Your hatred blinds you. Pick your battles in a more appropriate place.

Stop being an ass.

it's memory does nothing in my own family but perpetuate racism against the japanese, and blind nationalism, which both japan and germany were themselves plagued with

SunRat, when I was in school, the internment of the Japanese on the west coast was presented as a black mark on the history of this country. I don't think that people are celebrating Pear Harbor day in this day and age. Remembering and acknowledging mistakes helps us avoid them in the future. I get the feeling it's more reverence and remebering the history (both good and bad) behind it.

[Zer0]

Antihog, did that happen in a PUBLIC school???? For real???

I still shake my head in total disbelief 27 years and 4 days after it happened in a public school in Southern California. And I don't remember the teacher being disciplined (though he may have behind closed doors), but he kept on teaching and we heard no apologies.

I'd be willing to bet every Pearl Harbor survivor would have been furious to hear what he did, though. What an asshole.

[sun rat]

RevCBL: I know people die every die for countless reasons, but those whose sign there lives over to Uncle Sam to serve the masses do deserve a beer raised in there honor or a hat tipped in there memory. They made the dersion that some things are worth more than there lone life and risked it all for everyone, and they will forever have my graditude.

SunRat: The blind nationalize and hatred you speak of is what helped our service men and women do there jobs and get on with there lives. But then again I am sure you think we were wrong in dropping the atomic bombs and have failed to read enough histroy to see that countless lives on both sides were saved by that move.

why are you insulting me? because i don't toe the patriotic line? how patriotic of you.
i have family that survived the bomb being dropped on nagasaki. i also have family that died in pow camps in both japan and germany.
i do know a little about history, sweetheart.

[Flat_Black_Rat]

SunRat: I'm sorry if my response was a bit of a knee jerk reaction, it just sounded too close to "America is always at fault" line. The whole world was spewing propaganda of hatred, I'm not saying it is right, but it is what happened, and I'm sure we could all read the history books that best supported our own personal views on who started it and who was the more evil. I guess the big thing I'm trying to say is we need to keep everything in proper prospective, we were not the only ones spewing propaganda and in a fury of nationalism, the bulk of the world was and damn near everyone got fucked a bit in the deal.

[12ci]

History in ev'ry century
Records an act that lives forevermore.
We'll recall, as into line we fall
The thing that happened on Hawaii's shore

Let's remember Pearl Harbor
As we go to meet the foe
Let's remember Pearl Harbor
As we did the Alamo.

We will always remember
how they died for Liberty
Let's remember Pearl Harbor
And go on to victory.

Let's remember Pearl Harbor
As we go to meet the foe
Let's remember Pearl Harbor
As we did the Alamo.

We will always remember
How they died for Liberty
Let's remember Pearl Harbor
And go on to victory

[Jaeger]

Good bump. It's important to remember that 9/11 was not the first time America got smacked -- and sadly, it probably won't be the last. :L

Cheers to our folks in uniform trying to do Good Stuff and keep the nutjobs at bay.

--Jaeger

[goose]

Good bump. It's important to remember that 9/11 was not the first time America got smacked -- and sadly, it probably won't be the last. :L

Cheers to our folks in uniform trying to do Good Stuff and keep the nutjobs at bay.

--Jaeger

Smacking the U.S. is hardly a good move. Such action often results in large parts of populations dying for fucking with us, civilian and military alike.

Perhaps the U.S. is a bully, but it sure is one tough muthafucka of a bully!

[motorpsycho67]

Dec. 7 is a day we really got fucked, but I think the number of years that have passed, combined with all the shit our country has pulled on just about every group of non-white people in this country alone puts all these acts of violence into perspective. There is an embarassingly huge number of people our own country has victimized. Call it karma, whatever, but we, like everyone else, have been collectively victimized, while still harboring skeletons in our closet.

This veteran couldn't agree with you more Greg.


Rather than salute veterans, I prefer to think of them as victims. I know I feel victimized, even though I volunteered.

That said, I do thank those vets that laid down there life for us on this day.

[guitargeek]

What y'all said.

Also...

HAPPY SIXTY-FIRST BIRTHDAY TO TOM WAITS!!


Now: Back to your angst-ridden tribute to veterans, patriots and victims.

[12ci]

70 years.

[Zer0]

It was educational to read all these posts from past years.

But back to one of the points brought up in an older post: why don't we honor that day as we once did? I think 9/11 changed all that because the memories are still immediate--it is indeed our own Pearl Harbor Day. (As a mattter of fact, I'm wearing a 9/11-Never Forget wrist band right now.) Neither of my sons experienced 9/11, and I suspect they won't feel that near gutkick feeling I get every 9/11. But I teach them and we talk and learn about it. Let's hope they don't have their own 12/7 or 9/11.

In fact 9/11 is much more an important day for even my 76 yr-old father, a veteran, who was just 6 on 12/7/41. Pearl harbor Day is something we heard and read about and had to endure a Ben Affleck movie about--not much more. Our memories of 9/11 are real, and therefore much more emotional.

I'd also argue that we're friends with the Japanese people and the country of Japan. Not so yet with the major players behind 9/11.

[Sisyphus]

I think everyone should just get over it already and move on. Yeah, people died, and after that evern MORE people died, then we nuked Japan and celebrated.
Now we have 9/11, and we should just fucking forget that and move on, too. This "never forget" shit is infuriating. Never forget what, exactly?
"The muslims attacked us," is what that says. It's jingoism at its finest.
I saw it on the news and it made me soooo fucking mad. I didn't understand why people were cheering in the streets in all these little countries. It took me a few months or about a year, I don't remember but then I wondered, "Why? None of what I'm hearing makes any sense."
What I plan on explaining to my kids and grandkids, is that finally someone got pissed off enough at the US's antics when it came to manipulating other countries and stealing resources that belonged to other people that when they actually did what they did, half the world applauded.
Today happens to be my brother's birthday. I'm going to call him instead of thinking about all the percieved injustices our country has had to endure.

[bndgkmf]

I posted this earlier for Veteran's Day. Enjoy!

CWO4 Curtis R. Nixon, U.S.N. (Ret.)
Statement of 7 December 1941 while serving aboard the U.S.S. Pyro AE-1

Second Class Boatswain Mate when the war started. I was in the second division in charge of the boat deck and cargo in holds #4 and #5.

(b) My battle station was #2 AA gun 3”-50 caliber on the port side of the after boat deck.

Supervised the firing of the above gun. None of the guns had telescopic sights installed. The firing solenoids as well as the sights were stored in the armory. I fired the gun by hand being very careful of the recoil. I had a crew of ten men to help with the loading and training of the gun. The planes were coming very fast and it was very hard to track them with no sights or power training. Our method of firing was the trainer would pat his foot and I would fire. I had the fuzes set on “0” which caused the shells to burst at 2,700 feet. My first round was over the West Loch water tower where there were several Marine lookouts. The Marines abandoned the tower shortly thereafter as the were several holes punched in it. The second plane we fired at we missed but hit the next one in line. this plane was observed to crash in West Loch. One plane did try to bomb us but missed. His bomb hit the dock and caused extensive damage. Our gun jammed on the 18th fired round and was rendered out of commission. (Amusing Note) The duty cook and I had a case of Acme beer which we had purchased at the Marine Exchange for $2.10 on Saturday. We had buried the beer with 100 pounds of ice about 50 yards from the docks. The beer was for a Sunday party. Of course, we never had that party and as far as I know the beer is still there.

I am not too clear on what I observed that morning after our gun jammed. I remember a Gunners Mate with a .30-’06 rifle shooting at fishermen in the Loch. We had a machine gunner named “Ma” Jennings who hit a plane about 20 times from the cowling to the tail. The plane was not observed to go down. We observed no parachutes during the attack. No enemy prisoners were taken by the Pyro that I know of. Some prisoners were brought after the attack to help offload the Pyro prior to sailing for San Francisco.

The commanding officer of the Pyro was Captain Nicholas Vytlacil.

We were moored starboard side to the dock. My gun was on the Loch side. We saw many planes passing very low about eye level to us (20’ to 25’). Most of them were strafing but we were not strafed that I know of.

The Pyro was armed with 4 5”-50 caliber surface guns and 2 3”-50 caliber AA guns. There were also 4 .50 caliber machine guns on the ship. The forward 5” gun fired a few rounds that were not effective.

After my gun jammed I was assigned to a 40’ motor launch to pick up wounded and dead inside the harbor. We proceeded to the fleet landing and reported to the officer in charge. The O in C was a Captain Blackwell and I later learned he was the captain of the U.S.S. California. We were sent to Ford Island to pick up 3 wounded and 1 dead. We delivered the wounded to Landing “C” which was the Hickam Field Hospital and the dead was taken back to fleet landing. When we arrived back at the fleet landing one of the Pyro’s men was waiting for us. His name was Edwards, Cox(BM3). He was dressed in clean whites as he had spent the previous day visiting his sister in Honolulu. He boarded our boat and sat in the bow against the sampson post with a foot on each gunwale. We proceeded up the main channel towards the Navy Yard. As we approached the main yard railway there was a huge explosion (Note: U.S.S. Shaw) and Edwards had disappeared. There was much confusion aboard the boat and it took us a few minutes to get back underway. At that time the bow hook snagged what looked like a lump in the oil. I thought maybe it was a body and ordered it brought aboard. When the body was brought aboard we found that it was Edwards who was very much alive. He was covered head to toe in oil and had not a stitch of clothes on. We delivered Edwards back to Landing “C” so he could have the oil cleaned off of him. The procedure for this was to wash off the victim with light lubricating oil or salad oil. Unfortunately, the had run out and washed Edwards down with gasoline which almost killed him. He spent a month in the Pyro sick bay recovering from the procedure.

(Note: After the attack the Pyro left Pearl Harbor on Thursday 11 December 1941. She was credited with damaging a Japanese plane either “Ma” Jennings or Curtis Nixon’s 3” gun. She proceeded to San Francisco and spent the next few months carrying ammunition to Pearl Harbor.)

Upon leaving Pearl Harbor we were escorted for about 6 hours until 2230 the night of the 11th. At 2330 or 0000 we were attacked by a Japanese submarine. The sub fired two torpedoes at us. The torpedoes missed down both sides of the ship as we were zigzagging. After firing the submarine fired it surfaced and was taken under fire by our guns. My crew fired one shell from our 3” AA gun and were blinded by the muzzle flash. We were unable to gauge the results of our fire. The sub submerged quickly and we proceeded to San Francisco. (Amusing Note) The #4 5” gun fired 2 rounds at the submarine with no result. Upon arrival at San Francisco it was discovered #4 had all of it’s shells but missing powder bags. In the excitement they forgot to put shells in the guns. The #4 gun captain was nick named S.O.S. Sanders. Save Our Shells Sanders.

The U.S.S. Pyro was scheduled to reload the main magazine of the U.S.S. Arizona on Monday 8 December 1941. The crew of the Arizona had spent the 5 and 6 December 1941 offloading her 14” main battery ammunition. The shells were loaded aboard 4 500 ton covered barges and towed to West Loch. Arizona’s new ammunition was aboard Pyro. Had the 2000 tons of ammunition gone up along with the 750 tons of powder the loss of life would have been catastrophic. Also damage to ships and personnel near battleship row would have been much worse.

I edited this down a little from a handwritten journal my Grandfather wrote out.

[Pintgudge]

Well,

I agree with Sysyphus.

I heard that some smart guy said,

Forgive and Forget

I hope that people will do that for me, It woud be best.

[Rock]

Spent the day training sailors to deal with piracy, smugglers and general evil doers.

Among the people trained 2 Japanese Marines and 2 Japanese Navy. They were very aware of the day and we bs’ed how at the end of the day ( 70 years of days) yes, it was a sucker punch, no, our grandparents would never forgive the others. But maybe it was a good thing.

Later in the day there was a Japanese American. He hates both countries but the US less (not by much). His family who moved here in the early 1900’s (about the same time mine did) to NY (same place mine did). After today 70 years ago his family was moved to a camp. His grandfathers and other male family members enlisted and fought in the war some died, some got maimed. Some forgave the US and some did not.

When he was 18 he took his savings and moved to Japan. With the intention of reconnecting with his roots. The treatment he received there was worse than any of the BS he got here, after 18 months he came back to the US earned a place as an officer in the US Navy. Ultimately to have me “train” him.

Was an interesting 7th, I wonder if in early September 2071 my kinder will be BSing with some Arabs about their families. I hope so.

[happycommuter]

when is it ok to let something like that go? ever?

Be thankful that nobody refers to that Micheal Bay movie.

[rolly]

You'll never catch me on an fuckin Arab motorcycle. Freedom!

[Zer0]

Sys, Pintgudge, would either of you tell any orphans, widows or parents who lost their children only 10 years ago that we simply need to drop it? To get over it? Bullshit. It's way too soon to casually dismiss what happened. I don't have a time table, but it's too soon to forget.

I wonder if in early September 2071 my kinder will be BSing with some Arabs about their families. I hope so.

Really shouldn't be that long. I did that yesterday.

I do that so much at work I don't even think about it, and not just Arabs, but Pakistanis, Afghanis.

[rolly]

Would any of you tell the orphans, widows and parents who lost their children only 10 years ago that we just need to drop it? To get over it? Bullshit.

How they feel is none of my business, but I'd tell everyone else to stop using 9/11 to justify the end of individual rights at home and bathing in blood abroad.

[MoraleHazard]

Talk about thread from the dead.

Two points, one serious, one, not so much:

On Iwo Jima, there is a memorial with two plaques. One, facing the island is written in English, and the other, facing the sea, is written in Japanese. On both sides, it is inscribed:

On the 40th anniversary of the battle of Iwo Jima, American and Japanese veterans met again on these same sands, this time in peace and friendship. We commemorate our comrades, living and dead, who fought here with bravery and honor, and we pray together that our sacrifices on Iwo Jima will always be remembered and never be repeated.

And lastly, from the Onion, Kamikaze swimmers finally make it to Pearl Harbor:



My company lost over 200 people in 9-11. I don't have anything against Arabs or Muslims, but those Al Qaeda fucks can rot in hell for all I care. The wounds are still pretty sore with me.

[xtian]

My company lost over 200 people in 9-11. I don't have anything against Arabs or Muslims, but those Al Qaeda fucks can rot in hell for all I care. The wounds are still pretty sore with me.

Thank you for this. Blaming 9/11 on arabs or muslims is like blaming people with moustaches for Adolf Hitler. It just has no relation.

[Zer0]

My company lost over 200 people in 9-11. I don't have anything against Arabs or Muslims, but those Al Qaeda fucks can rot in hell for all I care. The wounds are still pretty sore with me.

Thank you for this. Blaming 9/11 on arabs or muslims is like blaming people with moustaches for Adolf Hitler. It just has no relation.

Being German (American), I quickly grew tired of all the times the kids at school called me a Nazi.

Would any of you tell the orphans, widows and parents who lost their children only 10 years ago that we just need to drop it? To get over it? Bullshit.

How they feel is none of my business, but I'd tell everyone else to stop using 9/11 to justify the end of individual rights at home and bathing in blood abroad.

I agree with this too--100%. But I still wouldn't tell relatives of the victims to get over it.