COVID-19 AND INTERESTING TIMES

[xtian]

I am certainly not at all comparing both phenomenons, I am only referring to the path we took from "we're all going to randomly die " to the habit of just living with it without considering it a major danger.
I doubt people thought they'd all die from the spanish flu, I guess less people would died, had they taken it so seriously. But we digress.
I am not sure pets are such a threat, I heard this morning that kids, that we until now thought were an important factor of contamination because of their lack of symptoms and - ask my GF working in an institution - discipline, were actually very rarely transmitting covid 19. They could trace back kids confirmed positive to covid 19 and found out that none of the people who were in contact with them in the last 2 weeks were positive.
more not so bad news
(pets, kids, yes, I am comparing both . )

[DerGolgo]

Pets may not keep the pandemic going, but I don't think we can rule out smaller, future outbreaks, and an endemic disease, when the same virus infects pets, and may be asymptomatic in so many people.

As of the coming Monday, masks in public are the law in Germany. Finally.
I had to pick up a prescription today, and there were a remarkable number of people on the tram I rode one way, and on the bus I rode the other way, who weren't masked. Still the majority.
At the doctor's office, beside the various notices about how many people are allowed to enter at once, they now have a notice that masks are required for anyone seeking entrance. Also, about damn time.

And what's it with morons who figure that they have to finish their cigarette before entering a store - and should do it literally in the fucking doorway of said store, so that it's impossible to keep the safe distance?
Hey, yeah, you're enjoying your cigarette, and you're yabbering on your phone, but can you please be more of an obstacle, jackoff?

[DerGolgo]

Okay. Second try at posting this.

As it turns out, smokers are significantly underrepresented among COVID-19 diagnoses.
Now, a few will be misdiagnosed, obviously, since no smoker can ever have a breathing disorder that's not just smoking related.
But these numbers are pretty fucking HUGE.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... oronavirus

French researchers to test nicotine patches on coronavirus patients

Study – which stresses serious health risks of smoking – suggest substance in tobacco may lower risk of getting coronavirus
...
The results confirm a Chinese study published at the end of March in the New England Journal of Medicine that suggested only 12.6% of 1,000 people infected with the virus were smokers while the number of smokers in China is around 28%.

In France, figures from Paris hospitals showed that of 11,000 patients admitted to hospital with Covid-19, 8.5% were smokers. The total number of smokers in France is estimated at around 25.4%.
...

Now, smokers who do get it, they get it quite bad, apparently.
But while smokers are generally at greater risk of infections of the airways.
FEWER THAN HALF of the number who'd have gotten it were smokers just as likely to get it as non-smokers?
I believe that when medication is so effective so as to reduce the number of sick people by more than 50%, doctors may start prescribing it, just for that. And in France, it's closer to A BLEEDIN' THIRD?!

Addictive as it may be. Once removed from the toxic combustion products, nicotine keeps looking better and better.

I'm just trying to picture it. If nicotine does indeed fend off the novel Coronavirus, people with immune deficiencies or other massive risk factors may choose to put nicotine in their life. And apart from off-label use of smoking-cessation-aids like nicotine patches, or tobacco products, they only choice really would be vaping. Particularly anyone who wants more than the pathetic little dose of nicotine that comes out of a patch or that disgusting gum, they may decide to vape.

And suddenly, all sorts of anti-vaping legislation, formulated by corporate lobbyists working for a tobacco industry that had missed the train re vaping, and lobbyists working for pharma companies desperate to keep selling smoking cessation aids, it will come under close scrutiny. And politicians may have to justify why they had to put such massive barriers in the path of people who might need nicotine to stay alive, quite literally.
Oh, that'd be so many christmasses rolled into one. And easters, too.

[xtian]

I'll be the party pooper again before everybody start eating nicotine patch sandwiches. The safety label on that news is that it is only an hypothesis based on observations of older patients ( 70+, less prone to smoke), medical staff (statistically less prone to smoke) and in a region (île de France) were people are statistically less prone to smoke, so smokers statistics might be biased.
Nicotine is a poison for non smoker, and causes addiction that triggers habituations, thus making the poison less effective leading to bigger doses, thus bigger problems . scientific testing will tell...

[DerGolgo]

Yes, it's just a hypothesis at this point.
But the numbers aren't just biased that way in ile des France.
No less than the New England Journal of Medicine has observed under-representation of smokers in a 1,000 people sample taken in Wuhan province.
Now, that sample may itself be biased, also. The odds for that aren't so bad, actually.

However, it's a second source, observing a similar phenomenon, on the other side of the world, in one of the world's preeminent smoker societies.
That suggests there may be something here. The odds for that aren't so bad, either.

As for the dangers of nicotine addiction.

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They've tried for decades to show nicotine causing cancer. While they have found bratwurst to be a confirmed carcinogen, in the WHO classification, nicotine isn't even in "suspected carcinogen".
Cardiovascular disease is a side effect of nicotine - for those who have the genetic predisposition. Single digit %.

A lot of things are really damn toxic. Pure oxygen can kill ya. Nicotine is more dangerous than that, but as everywhere, the dose makes the poison.
And while nicotine addiction can suck ass.
Nicotine can also be a great benefit. Click here to hear an expert opinion.

Spoiler

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It's been shown to be helpful for people with cognitive impairment due to head trauma (like me).
It's been shown to help people with chronic headaches (like me).
It's been shown to help people with depression (like me).
It's also one of the safer stimulants, will pick you up when you get tired, but without the racing heartbeat and other side effects of caffeine. While, at the same time, it'll calm you down if you're amped up (like when you've had too much coffee).

[DerGolgo]

So I'm an idiot.
I feel like my clothes have been getting wider lately. Which is odd.
Because I'm a terrible comfort eater, exercise pretty much not at all at present, and have been eating like a garbage disposal for going on two months now. And hadn't been able to stick with my diet very well before that, had not been able to get back on track after my father passed away.

So, back on topic. Been eating junk food like I relove, reuse, recycle.
Today I get the idea Hey, when I'm not dieting, and I'm not limiting myself to eating on weekends, I could actually, you know. Not eat junk food.
I got it into my head that I could eat, well. Food. Normal, non-junk, and not just for dinner.

So I went to the store and did the most idiotic thing I could. I made a purchase of something that, if eaten, might condemn me to die horribly.
I bought fruit.

Yes.

Let that sink in.

Fruit.

Worse, it's not just fruit. I bought four loose Braeburn apples, and a bag of dark grapes.
I might as well be french-kissing someone who's respirator I just ripped out so I could specifically french someone with the covid.

Sterilizing the apples turned out to be not that much of a problem. Big, smooth surfaces, wipe down with isopropyl, and spray a generous amount into the indentations at the top and bottom of the fruit. It should evaporate more or less without residue, which is why people use it to clean electronics, isn't it. Also, before eating them apples, I wash them under hot-as-possible water anyways, to get out whatever manimal-mutation-making-massively-malignant-miasma they spray it with on whatever corner of the flat earth they still harvest apples. Somewhere up in Washington, near Redmond, maybe. No, I don't believe in New Zealand. Such a place just cannot exist.

But the grapes. Oh, the grapes.
They weren't loose, abut in a zip-lock bag with two big holes that make a carrier handle, and dozens of smaller holes placed at regular intervalls on each side of the bag, and all of them expose the contents to the filthy, fetid, fruit and vegetable section.
Know that I have ever been wary of hygiene in the produce section. I really, really prefer stuff that's properly packaged. Really prefer it. Really really prefer it.

So how the fuck should I sterilize a bunch of grapes?
Suggestions?
I have a lot of isopropyl, but filling a bowl with it to give the grapes a bath, I consider that a cleanup of last resort.

Fucking fruit.
I mean, they hang up a sign, please don't fondle anything you're not planning on putting in your shopping cart (no baskets allowed, city orders, every single person entering the store must use a cart, which is a surprisingly pragmatic way of ensure distancing).
But do they maybe put up glove dispensers?
I remember another store used to have glove dispensers, years ago. I had to put one apple I had picked up back because, once I held it in my hand, I had found it a) soft as a wet sponge, and b) clearly showing evidence of decay. I hope that whoever picks it up next will come to the same conclusion. Or not, what do I care.
Yes, I could have improvised a glove from one of the plastic bags that are available, and are intended to be used for packing up your produce. But as I fumbled, I couldn't find a way of placing it over my hand that wouldn't have involved exposing both surfaces to my paws.

I may assemble some improv-masks tomorrow after all. Not the hundreds I had planned originally, but a few. Come Monday, wearing masks in public is required by law (which is curious since, under certain conditions and in certain areas, masking up is more kinda illegal), and some people won't have the money or the whatever to acquire a mask. I might ask my doctor if she wants a few for patients, or I may just go for a walk and soak up the dopamine response I'd get if I find a taker.

[DerGolgo]

My broadband is buggered, and I cannot right now figure out what is going on.
Is there a larger outage, affecting my city, or my entire ISP?
Or are they overloaded because everyone is stuck at home and will call tech support more, and my problem is really just localized to me?

Also, on that note. How come that surfing using a USB tether to my phone, using mobile internet, is faster than by broadband cable?

[Bo_9]

There was a moment of panic Sunday night when our local Phone CO-OP that provides us gigabit fiber (up and down) to the house and most in our town did maintenance. My kids phones were ringing like crazy as their friends were trying to determine if it was them or the provider that was down. The struggle, it s real... LOL The internet is schoolkids lives right now it seems.

[DerGolgo]

The struggle, it s real... LOL The internet is every under-60-person's lives right now it seems.

Fixed that for ya.
The internet is no longer a thing like the living room TV that you switch on or off, that you are either using at one moment, or not.

Threadjack

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I can't even come up with anything that compares. Business, communication. The internet is just life. And once Tony StaElon Musk gets Starlink going well and proper, there will be no place on the planet that can't have broadband.
The single most magnificent tool for education, economic advances, you name it, will become available at the price of a cheaper notebook computer, to even the most remote locations, hundreds of miles from the nearest optical fiber.

I really envy kids these days. When I was that age, I'd scour the TV schedule weeks in advance, to figure out if any movies worth recording for my growing VHS collection would be on. It was before late-night programming was completely taken-over by 0900 call-in game shows, and TV channels got many odd movies in package deals and would pump them out.
I put real fucking work into building that VHS collection. And it would pretty much always be in the German dub. I was totally stunned when I could finally hear Woody Allen movies in the original.
Kids these days, they don't have that. They can also look up any information at no notice, when all I had was my father's really fancy Brockhaus encyclopedia. In which the Apollo program, for instance, was listed as a planned attempt at landing on the moon in the near future.
That encyclopedia was so thorough on a few subjects, I was able to put together entire presentations for English and for Philosophy class just with that.
But what I could have done with Wikipedia...

[DerGolgo]

Did a grocery walk (I don't fucking run for anyone) to the larger store. This involved a 10 minute tram ride.

As of Monday, anyone riding public transit, or entering a retail establishment, must wear a mask. By law. Tying a scarf around your face will be quite sufficient, but them face holes gotta be covered.

Last week, on the tram, I had noticed maybe one or two masks besides my own on board, on a fairly full tram, where distancing wasn't much of an option.
Today, outbound, tram wasn't so full that distancing would have been a problem. Spotted one guy without a mask, fella around 30 I'd guess. Everybody else had something tied around their face-holes. Return journey, tram was even emptier, only person sans mask I spotted was a lady in her 60s (minimum).

I noticed that, today, I could ride a tram every 15 minutes. Back to the regular timetable, it appears. The higher frequency of public transit that I believe the Robert Koch Institute had recommended, so as to allow passengers to distance, so long as many people still cannot go back to work, it appears to be working. That full tram last week had been running on the Saturday timetable on weekdays, so at reduced frequency.

At the grocery store, or rather inside of it, everybody was masked. A few people, including the cashier who served me, had the brilliant idea that, so long as there isn't somebody within distancing distance, they could lower their mask to expose their nose.
I'm not wishing them a corona infection, the masks are more for protecting other people, aren't they. But some unpleasant nasal pathology, they def deserve that a bit.

In the store, I was also astounded. By paper towels!
The store around the corner from me got a huge load of toilet paper in on Friday, so much that they didn't have enough shelf-space when that was the only product they had in the section normally occupied by TP and paper towels. But no paper towels.
At the larger store today, I found a good supply of toilet paper filling up shelves in that department. Except for one corner, around a Euro-Palette that was maybe still 80% full, with paper towels. The shelving around it had a forlorn four-pack of rolls, suggesting to me that they had been stuffed, and had since been cleared out.
I told a friend about my find, but it appears other stores also got paper towels in today. Curiously, it's not like the same brand had delivered today - the paper towels I bought two four-packs of, they were the store's own-brand, while my friend had found paper towels at a store owned by a wholly different chain. Perhaps the same factory supplying both own-brands had delivered today? We may never know.

Regardless, I no longer have to use paper tissues (that I had Amazon ship to me in neutral packaging, because I had to fear thievery) for things I normally use paper towels for. I've got enough paper towels for at least a month or two.

I'm no great activist in the labor movement. I'm a union man, but I can't lay claim to any political work in over a decade.
Regardless.
Tomorrow is May Day. International day of labor. International Worker's Day.
The day to celebrate collective bargaining power, solidarity, and the power that lies in the hand of the worker. Also (for nerds like myself, who read up on the history of shit) commemorative of the brethren workers brutally slain in Chicago's Haymarket Massacre of May 4, 1886.
This year will be the first time in about 20 years that I, while not being in hospital or otherwise impaired, won't go see a bit of the union events in town. There will be a few virtual things happening, apparently.

FFS. Since the 3rd Reich, workers have taken to the street on May 1st. That's the main reason the nazis had made it into a public holiday - industrial, logistics, and mining workers weren't gonna go to work. So a public holiday wouldn't just make life easier for everyone, it would also take away publicity from the unions.

Since the end of the 3rd Reich, though, the unions have laid claim to May 1st, and aren't giving it up.

I wonder whether I might do like the pretentious jackoffs who'd sing out of their windows a few weeks ago. But singing The Internationale, or rather the German Die Internationale (you may laugh now, capitalists, it's fine). Maybe some other songs drenched in red? The potato of Brothers, to the Sun, to Freedom maybe? Bella Ciao feels inappropriate in many ways, but in far fewer than I'd be comfortable with.

[DerGolgo]

Oh, and isn't this delightful.
It's getting fucking GATTACA in here.

The German federal government, and the government of my state, are working on "Immunity-passes".
The idea: people who can prove that they had COVID-19, and got over it, might present that pass to receive special privileges while the law might otherwise restrict something because of the pandemic.
The federal minister of health has announced that, yes, there is as yet no scientific evidence that someone who had it might become immune and won't spread it, nor get a reinfection. But they must prepare, of course.

In my state, meanwhile, preparation entails concrete preparations to start issuing such documents in a few weeks, on a "trial" basis.
Same conservative party as that health minister.

The app that's supposed to detect whether someone might have had contact with a confirmed case is still in the works, but I fear they will find some reason to make it go the same way as that immunity pass.

See, when they issue documents about immunity to one disease, they must also provide to employers the exact information what infectious diseases a person may have. Because reasons.
Right now, that's only possible for certain infections that can be prevented by vaccines.
Twice in my life, I got a letter from the public health department because I had had something that the diagnosing physician must report to the public health office. Like some nasty gut-pathogens that nobody should schlepp into a restaurant kitchen. But it would have been my choice to inform my employer. I'd have broken the law had I gone to work in the food-service industry, but unless I actually did that, all my employer would need to know is that I'm sick with *something*.

Employers presently only get the little standardized document, signed by the physician, that informs them for how long an employee won't be able to come to work.
The assumption being that if it's easily transmitted, and the doctor telling the patient to stay the fuck home, people will generally stay the fuck home, rather than going to work.
If a person has something that can only be transmitted through limited vectors, and that doesn't render them unable to work, it's none of the employer's fucking business. Actually, even if it does keep a person unable to work, it's none of the employer's fucking business. Doctor says "can't work", and that is bloody well all they need to know.
A person carrying HIV or Hep-C might, with the right medications, have no visible symptoms, might be perfectly able to work, and so long as they don't smear their coworkers with blood (and possibly not even then), can't infect fuckall.

But don't let a good crisis go to waste, ha!
The conservative party evidently tries to use the occasion to take what is among the most vehemently protected information about a person, their medical information, and unprotect it.
Why, if a person is perfectly able to do their job, has no visible symptoms to concern anyone, and can't even infect anyone, lest they have an open wound (and with modern anti-retrovirals, even that might not work), of course any employer has the goddamn right to fire them, or not hire them in the first place!

[xtian]

after several days of debate, it seems that motorcycling is included in the "outdoor sport activities" now allowed, as long as there are no more than 3 bikes, no leisure stop, and social distanciation mesures.
So I rode to the letter box yesterday, for the 1st time in 7 weeks. massive police roadblock just down my street, where I conveniently rode up the sidewalk to said letterbox, then home. I'm on antibiotics (not covid related), too lightheaded and stomach crumpled to feel secure anyway, or maybe it's the vision of empty streets, closed shops and masks everywhere that is making me sick. I don't think there will be a summer this summer. more official news later to decide if shops may open next week, that would allow me more riding and start earning some money again.

[DerGolgo]

Went to pick up a prescription today.
At the doctor's office, as is common in many places these days, people waited outside. Not in a line, because some at least understand the concept of distancing. Some don't.
I confess, I don't always notice markings on the ground, like at the counter at my pharmacy. But I usually do notice people. I've been evading people my whole life, so it's not that difficult for me. But when waiting for something, some don't get it, and I have to flee a... what's the collective noun for little old ladies at the doctor's office? An arthritis? Whatever.

What pissed me off is that, although everyone on public transit seemed to be wearing a mask, as is required. Many morons don't get the idea that pulling it down so the nose isn't covered is like wearing no fucking mask at all. I might call these idiots fucking mouthbreathers, except if they were that, they wouldn't free their nose to breathe unencumbered.
And I see people do that with masks that don't even have the little metal thingy to clamp down on the nose, they would have big open gaps there, anyways.

And as infuriating as it is. It gets an order of magnitude more infuriating when a nurse does it. Specifically the nurse that comes to the door and is basically the bouncer!
Maybe she only did it when she went to the door and, hopefully, she got an earful. After about a half hour, when she had come to the door a half dozen times or so, she had adjusted her mask.

[red]

What pissed me off is that, although everyone on public transit seemed to be wearing a mask, as is required. Many morons don't get the idea that pulling it down so the nose isn't covered is like wearing no fucking mask at all. I might call these idiots fucking mouthbreathers, except if they were that, they wouldn't free their nose to breathe unencumbered.
And I see people do that with masks that don't even have the little metal thingy to clamp down on the nose, they would have big open gaps there, anyways.

I've been watching what people do while wearing masks, now that it's more common place. I see tons of uncovered noses, people wearing gloves and mask but pulling down their mask to touch their faces, loose/floppy masks, knit scarves and other techniques that are beyond questionable. Hell, I watched a person rub their FUCKING MOUTH with their gloved hands. AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!

[DerGolgo]

I've been watching what people do while wearing masks, now that it's more common place. I see tons of uncovered noses, people wearing gloves and mask but pulling down their mask to touch their faces, loose/floppy masks, knit scarves and other techniques that are beyond questionable. Hell, I watched a person rub their FUCKING MOUTH with their gloved hands. AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!

Few weeks ago, also when waiting to pick up a prescription at the same doctor's as today, there was a guy who pulled his mask down, and then basically spent the next five minutes rubbing and scratching his face on and off.
I had a bottle of hand sanitizer with me and offered that, if he's gonna keep touching his face, maybe he wants to disinfect his hands.
"No, I washed them, that's enough."
FFS.

A lot of people seem to be touching their face more than they otherwise would, because they feel the urge to keep adjusting their mask. I've put cable-ties on my mask, so I can adjust it without touching it. But for fuck's sake, how fucking difficult is it to adjust the mask before you go out, and just powering through the minuscule discomfort it may present?
Yes, not touching your face takes getting used to. But so does wearing a mask, or acting like a fucking grownup who doesn't need every last itch scratched in-fucking-mediately.

A few people on the bus were talking about pulling the mask down to reveal their nose because, otherwise, they find breathing too hard...
Yeah, shitbird. You're not fucking supposed to do the 400m dash with that mask. 50% of the infected, most of whom will be shedders, don't have any symptoms. Your fucking comfort isn't worth other people getting dead because you jackass figure it's not your problem once it's out of your airways.

As I reported earlier, the government here is working on turning the whole country into a GATTACA knockoff, where immunity status or lack thereof creates different castes, with different privileges.
I just hope that when they write these laws, they put in that anyone who figures they shouldn't have to breathe through a filter gets to breathe through a window with bars on for a few days.

People touching their face, particularly to adjust a mask. That's fucking dumb, and also endangers other people by increasing the risk of making a new shedder. But I can see why people aren't even aware they're doing it.
But when all the experts plead and beg that people cover up their faceholes, and these jackasses don't. When they consciously make the choice to pull the thing down and reveal the holes they're actively breathing through. That's actively holding their momentary comfort over the lives of others. That's fucking malicious.

[Jaeger]

Day 52.

It's incredible to think that next week will be 2 months of being on lockdown. I remember thinking going into this "oh, it'll just be a couple of weeks... right?"

I knew at the time that it would likely be longer, but I didn't want to think about it too hard.

Now, almost 2 months in, it's becoming clear that Xtian's right -- we're not going to have much of a summer, if at all. We're anticipating no local pools, no trips to the beach, and no air travel for vacations -- possibly no vacations at all. M and I are talking about road tripping somewhere, but... where? Nothing's open, and if it were we wouldn't want to go! Too many goddamn people!

All the parks around here are closed, and i think that's true pretty much everywhere. Nevertheless, every time I go by one there are cars parked up on the streets and it's clear the places are packed. No bueno.

I very much wish we were in the American Southwest where there's all that open, empty BLM land. I like the idea of camping somewhere out in the desert with nothing and nobody for miles. That sounds lovely.

The Jaegerkinder are doing reasonably well, I suppose. They're getting some schoolwork done during the week, but it requires one of us to sit and mind them while doing it. Doesn't work really well while trying to work. Then again, we're fortunate that we can keep working without leaving the house, so there's that.

I'm just glad we have two kids and they generally get along. As an only child myself, the idea of being trapped in the house with nobody but my parents for months on end -- either now or as a kid -- is enough to make my stomach turn.

Thankfully the cops aren't quite as draconian around here regarding going for a ride. I got the bike out this past Saturday and put on a few miles just buzzing around NoVA. Nothing really interesting and spectacular -- only had an hour before I had to get home to mind kiddos -- but it was nice to blow off some steam. I'm hoping to get a few small socially-distanced rides together at some point just to have some company.

--Jaeger

[DerGolgo]

Timeline Potato.

News keep reporting about more and more "hygiene" protests.
Among the leading figures there is a youtuber who makes serious bank with his vegan cooking videos.
And is a fucking neo-nazi.
Every kind of fucking xenophobe is taking to the streets. Racists, islamophobes, antisemites, the whole lot. They appear to be protesting together often, to support each other. Don't even notice that they are all blaming different groups for the pandemic.

On May 1, a camera team of "die heute show", which is a weekly ripoff of the Daily Show format, and often is even funny, got assaulted.
They had just finished shooting a bit about some protest or another, and were packing up, when they got jumped. Based on how the attackers seemed to coordinate, and had their escape methods ready, the authorities assume that the attack was not a spur-of-the-moment thing, but a pre-planned act of "revenge" for the non-flattering reports about the shit-for-brains who are sure the pandemic is a devious plot by [insert ethnic group and/or distinct culture that white assholes like to kick down on] to specifically wrest freedom, democracy, and control of the world from their hands.
Which, considering how many of these fucks like to wax lyrically about how, once they take over, they would specifically abolish democracy, and the freedom of anyone who doesn't like it.

Curiously, the exact people who applaud the attack on social media will also, one or two comments later, declare that it cannot possible have been the work of right-wing extremists. That, rather, this can only be the doing of antifa or other lefties.
The very groups they elsewhere demand to be eradicated from society in the most violent ways they can make up.
Cognitive dissonance of the nth degree.

[Bigshankhank]

Timeline Potato.

News keep reporting about more and more "hygiene" protests.
Among the leading figures there is a youtuber who makes serious bank with his vegan cooking videos.
And is a fucking neo-nazi.
Every kind of fucking xenophobe is taking to the streets. Racists, islamophobes, antisemites, the whole lot. They appear to be protesting together often, to support each other. Don't even notice that they are all blaming different groups for the pandemic.

On May 1, a camera team of "die heute show", which is a weekly ripoff of the Daily Show format, and often is even funny, got assaulted.
They had just finished shooting a bit about some protest or another, and were packing up, when they got jumped. Based on how the attackers seemed to coordinate, and had their escape methods ready, the authorities assume that the attack was not a spur-of-the-moment thing, but a pre-planned act of "revenge" for the non-flattering reports about the shit-for-brains who are sure the pandemic is a devious plot by [insert ethnic group and/or distinct culture that white assholes like to kick down on] to specifically wrest freedom, democracy, and control of the world from their hands.
Which, considering how many of these fucks like to wax lyrically about how, once they take over, they would specifically abolish democracy, and the freedom of anyone who doesn't like it.

Curiously, the exact people who applaud the attack on social media will also, one or two comments later, declare that it cannot possible have been the work of right-wing extremists. That, rather, this can only be the doing of antifa or other lefties.
The very groups they elsewhere demand to be eradicated from society in the most violent ways they can make up.
Cognitive dissonance of the nth degree.

So a friend of mine down in FL was in the drive through of a Starbucks this morning and witnessed the driver in the car behind her getting smacked by some itinerant asshole (probably not a KZ rider, though). The police arrived on scene and my friend gave a statement and learned that the driver was assaulted because she was wearing a mask and the person who slapped her "didn't need to hear anything from a pussy wearing a mask". Apparently there was a handgun displayed by the attacker, also. So a person got out of their car in a drive through, walked to the car ahead and started shit and flashed a weapon because the other person wore a mask. And my friend, who has a pretty wide following on social media, had to take down her post about it because SHE started getting harrassed online about "mah freedums".

Shit is not falling apart at the seams, its ripping right through the fucking middle.

[xtian]

allow me to clarify two things. when I said masks everywhere made me anxious it was as a sign of a changing society and in no way directed against people wearing them as an obvious albeit probably a little derisory but mandatory mean of protection, and secondly, as much as I respect all of you guys and girls and inbetweens and the history of your great country that until recently was a symbol of modernity and success, not that my countrymen can serve as an exemple, yours has taken a serious and sad turn down the shitter lately. good luck all.

[Bigshankhank]

yours has taken a serious and sad turn down the shitter lately. good luck all.

I would be a fool to argue this point.

[motorpsycho67]

Can I be brutally honest for a moment?


I fucking HATE conservatives.... especially the American variety.


There, I said it


Whew


And now back to you in the studio....

[Bigshankhank]

Up until now I and my family have been pretty well insulated from this virus, but today I was notified a good friend of mine lost her mom to the 'rona. This marks the closest it has come to us, directly knowing someone who was lost. Still at some distance I realize, but nevertheless a friend lost a parent and that hurts.

[DerGolgo]

Can I be brutally honest for a moment?

Everybody play nice.
There's a forum for political discussion. This ain't it.

I don't want any shouting matches that, around here, boil down to what different things different people want to stick a certain label on or not. And who gets to decide what that label means or doesn't.

If some behavior anybody associates with one label or another offends them, by all means, elaborate on that offense, and on that behavior.
Anyone who disagrees and thinks that behavior is jolly good, please, do also elaborate.

Do not, however, mistake that for a political label you want to wear or not, or want to stick on somebody else or not.
As much as you may feel justified on either count, you don't have to die on that hill, no matter which one it is. Try to be aware that you may be firing the first volley in a battle you don't want, in a place you shouldn't want to see become a battlefield.
Know that something you might feel entirely justified in saying may not appear so justified to somebody else. Someone you may consider a friend. And that that road goes both ways. Somebody else might just as well say something they feel justified in saying, but you know for certain is unfair, uncalled for, unjustified.

Keep in mind that what in your mind is just a funny isn't that to somebody else. And vice versa.
It doesn't matter whether it's just an expression of resignation or desperation.

Do not forget that we're all here because of a shared interest, and that before the fucking Coronapocalypse came upon us, we were able to maintain a degree of civility.
And that such civility is more important in times of crisis than at any other time.

We, as a disorganization, as a culture, as a species, and as friends, won't get through this by alienating one another because of some fucking political label we may have chosen to identify as.

I come here because it's where people I consider friends hang out.
Friends who I know have political opinions that differ wildly from my own.
But who I know are good people, regardless. Which is all that matters in the end. Labels don't.

[DerGolgo]

So Roy Horn is dead. He of Siegfried & Roy.
Noted profiteers of cruelty, forcing their victims to do their bidding and persist in uncomfortable surroundings, darkness, only getting fed if they acted as instructed.

And they didn't treat their animals very nice, either!

So I got the depressing idea of looking up how many celebrities have died of COVID-19, or COVID-19 related complications. Not because I'm interested in celebrating someone for being a celebrity, as much of modern culture seems to be doing.
But this is taking away great artists and craftsmen who have honed their skills for decades and decades, have maybe as much as a half century or more to look back on.
Sure, they would all die one day, eventually. Old people do that. But right now, they are dying in greater number, because of this. I'm not suggesting we, as a civilization, will miss grandiose contributions they are yet to make. But we, as a civilization, will miss the experience and guidance such people might have lent a new generation of artists, and the perspective they might have provided on events, arts, all manner of things.

Just googling what different sources provide, people who I think someone around here might be familiar with, and only people I think probably did something worth celebrating in the first place. An actor I hadn't heard of, who appeared in tv-shows or movies I wasn't aware of, probably not gonna include him. Yes, that is pretty arbitrary. But so is the plague's lethatlity, isn't it. This is not a complete list of notable people who died of COVID-19. Not remotely.

Date is the day they died.

• John Prine (April 7, aged 73) Country-folk singer and songwriter
• Adam Schlesinger (April 1, aged 52) Songwriter and co-founder of Fountains of Wayne
• Troy Sneed (April 27, aged 52) Gospel singer, Grammy nominee
• Joe Diffie (March 29, aged 61) Country singer
• Ellis Marsalis Jr. (April 1, aged 85) Jazz pianist
• Terrence McNally (March 24, aged 81) Playwright
• Manu Dibango (March 24, aged 84) Singer-songwriter, instrumentalist
• Lee Konitz (April 15, aged 92) Jazz saxophonist
• Wallace Roney (March 31, aged 59) Jazz trumpeter
• John "Bucky" Pizzarelli (April 1, aged 94) Jazz guitarist
• Jay Benedict (April 4, aged 68) Actor in Aliens, The Dark Knight
• Tim Brooke-Tayloer (April 12, aged 79) Actor in The Goodies
• Dave Greenfield (May 3) Musician, keyboardist with The Stranglers
• Andrew Jack (March 31, Aged 76) Actor in Star Wars, dialect coach
• Michael McKinnell (March 27, aged 84) Architect who kinda gave brutalism a bad rep, but who also did some good stuff
• Rafael Gómez Nieto (March 31, aged 99) Spanish Civil War vet, also last surviving member of first allied unit to enter Paris in 1944
• Joel M. Reed (April 12, aged 86) Director Blood Sucking Freaks, producer, screenwriter
• Allen Davies (April 15, aged 77) Cinematographer E.T., The Color Purple, Empire of the Sun
• Robert "Bootsie" Barnes (April 22, aged 82) Jazz tenor saxophonist
• Alan Abel (April 25, aged 91) Percussionist, inventor of musical instruments

Some people never got the opportunity to collect that much experience.

• Li Wenliang (February 7, aged 33) Ophthalmologist who blew the whistle on COVID-19 in Wuhan
• William "Kiing Shooter" Daniels (May 5, aged 24) Rapper
• Fred The Godson (April 23, aged 35) Rapper

Some guys, well, whether or not one regrets their passing, they didn't exactly have a lot of professional experience and expertise you'd want them to pass along.

• Francesco Di Carlo (April 16, aged 79) Actual Sicilian Mafia mobster (turned state's evidence)
• Matthew Madonna (April ?, aged 84) Street boss for Lucchese crime family

Yeah, now I'm depressed enough.

[Bigshankhank]

OK fuck it I'm gonna rant. I've been on a bourbon bender all day.

My wife joined her sibs (of which there are many) to wish her mom and step dad a good mothers day day. But her sibs got all huggy and shit with the elderly people who are most at risk. Not ok, wife and daughter kept their distance. I've denied myself the affections of my parents when I;ve seen them over the past two months (rarely but still) and frankly I can't understand how you can risk someone you love? I want to cry right now, this has been such an emotional build up, everyone wants affection its the fucking human condition but cmon be stronger than your simple animal goddamn needs and hold off for a bit. Big picture people, big picture.

[DerGolgo]

I want to cry right now, this has been such an emotional build up, everyone wants affection its the fucking human condition but cmon be stronger than your simple animal goddamn needs and hold off for a bit. Big picture people, big picture.

I'm getting the impression a lot of people seem to be beginning to feel about the lockdown like they felt about stuff their parents prohibited when they were kids.
And that all they have to do is make sure nobody they don't trust sees them ignore all hygiene advice.

[xtian]

woke up in the middle of the night very sick, a lot of fever and fairly similar symptoms of what could be covid 19, so I had an interesting night and morning. It looks like I developed an allergy to my antibiotics. I now look like that character from toxic avenger so I won't mind staying indoors a couple of days. I feel old and weak. Still programmed the maintenance in 3 weeks and have to ride the remaining 850 miles. Shouldn't be a problem unless the numbers start inverting and we hage tp go back to lock down

[DerGolgo]

So this shit is starting to appear over here.
"Nicht geimpft" means "not vaccinated".
"Impfen macht frei" is "Vaccination sets (one/you) free". The words over the gates of many concentration camps were "Arbeit macht frei" (Arbeit = Work).
Keeping in mind that there is no bloody vaccine, and even if one was invented yesterday, the required trials would take at least 18 months or so.
I had been hoping that anti-vaxxers might learn a lesson from living in a world where no vaccine, and no herd immunity, protects them from a deadly virus. Instead, they seem to be welcomed to the fold of the "NWO" and suchlike conspirationalists.

The conspiranoiacs here are firmly on the extreme right end of the political spectrum. Where people who will vocally deny that the Holocaust even took place are described as "rational skeptics", and anyone openly suggesting to reopen the camps, explicitly to murder some groups of people they don't like, will not earn any criticism beyond "hey, we might get a community-standards strike, try not to be so explicit".

Enough of the scumbags denying the reality of the Holocaust will themselves wax lyrically about how they want to reopen the camps and murder one group or another.

[motorpsycho67]

Can I be brutally honest for a moment?

Everybody play nice.
There's a forum for political discussion. This ain't it.

I don't want any shouting matches that, around here, boil down to what different things different people want to stick a certain label on or not. And who gets to decide what that label means or doesn't.

If some behavior anybody associates with one label or another offends them, by all means, elaborate on that offense, and on that behavior.
Anyone who disagrees and thinks that behavior is jolly good, please, do also elaborate.

Do not, however, mistake that for a political label you want to wear or not, or want to stick on somebody else or not.
As much as you may feel justified on either count, you don't have to die on that hill, no matter which one it is. Try to be aware that you may be firing the first volley in a battle you don't want, in a place you shouldn't want to see become a battlefield.
Know that something you might feel entirely justified in saying may not appear so justified to somebody else. Someone you may consider a friend. And that that road goes both ways. Somebody else might just as well say something they feel justified in saying, but you know for certain is unfair, uncalled for, unjustified.

Keep in mind that what in your mind is just a funny isn't that to somebody else. And vice versa.
It doesn't matter whether it's just an expression of resignation or desperation.

Do not forget that we're all here because of a shared interest, and that before the fucking Coronapocalypse came upon us, we were able to maintain a degree of civility.
And that such civility is more important in times of crisis than at any other time.

We, as a disorganization, as a culture, as a species, and as friends, won't get through this by alienating one another because of some fucking political label we may have chosen to identify as.

I come here because it's where people I consider friends hang out.
Friends who I know have political opinions that differ wildly from my own.
But who I know are good people, regardless. Which is all that matters in the end. Labels don't.

I find your response more than a little bit ignorant.

Politics rarely fit into a nice little box you can ignore.

Politics are VERY much a part of this crisis we are all experiencing.

[DerGolgo]

I find your response more than a little bit ignorant.

Politics rarely fit into a nice little box you can ignore.

Politics are VERY much a part of this crisis we are all experiencing.

Nor do politics fit into a nice little box you can hit other people over the head with. Which is why I requested that everybody refrain from attacking a political label, and criticize behaviors, instead.

Just based on what we've seen here, over the years, a lot of people will have a different definition of "conservative". For a lot of people, conservative will mean "well, me, obviously!". Some of these people will look at goons in MAGA hats, congressmen with lobbyist cash pouring out of every orifice, and bigoted bible thumpers, and they will see "well, not really conservatives".
But when you mean to attack the latter groups, by attacking the label conservative, these self-declared obvious conservatives will feel attacked.

Why? Because nobody gives a shit about what you mean. Often won't even give a shit about what you say. Just as you aren't giving a shit about what I said.

I specifically invited anyone who wishes to criticize what people do, their behavior, to have at it. And anyone who wishes to disagree to do the same.

Wrapping us, or the people we perceive as our opponents, into a neat little political label is tribalism, is to divide us even along lines where we don't have to.

Yes, politics are very much a part of this crisis. Because of what politics make people do, or because politics are what people use to rationalize what they are doing anyways.
Political labels, meanwhile, pretty much universally, come with so many different definitions, they rarely encompass only the deeds or groups someone wishes to attack.

Most of the time, sorting out what everybody is talking about, having a spirited discussion, is an option.
Right now, everybody is already walking on a bloody knife's edge. Your "brutally honest" bit right now is well suitable to drive people away, while nobody has the mental bandwidth to sort out in their mind why your unspoken definition of conservative can only be the correct definition of conservative, and the definition they themselves have been using their entire life must obviously be wrong, because ms67 must have taken into account what they think when he rails against conservatives.

If people in MAGA hats, bible thumpers, gun-nuts, or free traders piss you off. Say it. Say "people in MAGA hats piss me off", etc.
If the Apparatchiks of the Republican Party, or McConnel's Creatures of Congress are who you hate, actually mention them. Some people might still take offense, since they vote republican and cannot live in a world that won't validate their every decision.
But even they would only defend against condemnation of what they did.
Not against condemnation of who they are.