Coming up a cloud. Where vapists gather!

[jae]

haha, your original is still incredibly condensed compared to going to *random internet enthusiast gathering site* and just searching. Searching forums works great if you know exactly what you're searching for, but otherwise gets downright overwhelming.

[DerGolgo]

Search youtube instead. Plenty of intro videos.
If you want a review of hardware, youtube. Look at how many subscribers the channel has, that'll let you judge how credible they are.
Or ask me. I know, I'm a bit terse, but I think I can probably bring myself to impart some info.

[Zim]

Thanks, you peer pressuring bastards... now it looks like my backyard is on fire.

[DerGolgo]

Think of it as ... a sauna, think of it as a sauna. Behind those clouds are naked Swedish girls!

[Zim]

The only Swedish thing in this house is from Ikea. And maybe some fish.

Went to a vape shop. Different feel from the local tobacconist.

One place has its proprietor smartly dressed in a tie, vest and jacket sitting in a comfy chair, smoking a cigar, while his chino/oxford wearing son handles the business. Jars of shredded brown leaves with labels such as Cinnamon Woodstove, Black Cherry, and Lakeside Vanilla fill shelves. Tall glass humidors stocked with boxes and boxes of cigars, displays of briar and corncob, lighters and cutters, accoutrements. Outside, an indian statue holding cigars. Rich scents and brown hues. Classy and comfortable.

The other has Justin Beiber and a stoner. Harsh lighting, bare walls, a few display cases (used store fixtures) loaded with little bottles with wild names, what looks like a pen collection on top of the cases, electronic box doo-dads, flags outside proclaiming "VAPE SHOP!". Odd fruit-like smells. A bit skeezy.

But they were helpful. I inquired about starter kits, and was immediately asked if it was for quitting smoking. When I said "No", Justin got his box mod and asked if I wanted to make big clouds "like this", whereupon he produced a not-so-big cloud. Luckily I had researched a little and knew generally what I wanted to start with. Stoner looked up from his desk and offered some scattered advice. Walked out with a Vision Spinner/Evod contraption and a little bottle of "Caramel Macchiato", no nicotine.

I was pleasantly surprised... the smell was similar to my brief pipe smoking experience, and the taste didn't burn my tongue off. More importantly, I was able to push a button on the device in the house, with vapor quickly dissipating, rather than tend to a small smokey fire in the cold garage. It's certainly more discreet.

[DerGolgo]

One of us! One of us! One of us!


In defense of that vape shop.
Before tobacco went mainstream, brave and adventurous businessmen sailed the seven seas to bring back spices from Asia, sugar from the Caribbean and, of course, tobacco from the continental Americas.
They would meet with their slave-trading buddies in their gentleman's clubs, which were also called "smokers' clubs" from what I understand. Surely for a good reason.
Long before the plebeian cigarette was invented, the cigar, the pipe, the whatnot, they were saturated in the aroma of smokey liquor, stout leather, class-distinction and carefree imperialism.
Vaping hasn't had time for that, yet. I wonder when it will find that. Everyone is too busy inventing new attys, new mods, and fighting the damn article 20.

[DerGolgo]

BTW, Zim, go and google "pipe mod" or some variation thereof ...





These things, they do exist ... for the suave vapist!

[jae]

YES. This is exactly what I need to replace (or supplement) my pipe.

[DerGolgo]

YES. This is exactly what I need to replace (or supplement) my pipe.

Cool, cool.
I'd have gotten me one of those myself, except they don't usually come with very much power.
Shop around, though. If you're starting off with a smaller device, you might find something that'll suit ya.
I'll be more than happy to answer questions about technical specs/suitability.

[jae]

I'm sure these are on the expensive side for the given capacity, but I do like the style.

http://chancemccloud.com/aristrocrat.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[DerGolgo]

... right, they call that "aristocrat" ... it looks more "Heidi's Grampa", I think.
Points of concern: It says "common 510XL battery". That is NOT a standard-size battery, it's more like what brother Zero got himself. If it breaks, or wears out, you'll need OEM parts for replacement.
No mention of amp rating or capacity is given. Probably enough to make little, timid and submissive clouds to just get your nic fix, a few minutes out of the hour. But things get bigger than that clearomizer and meh ...
This really is, capacity wise, a $20 entry level device with a $150 piece of pretty wood.
Those clearomizers are fairly common (and not, as stated here, "rebuildable"; usually, I've only seen em with an exchangeable cartridge).
At that price, I'd recommend going into a bricks-and-mortar store and trying out a device like that, and other devices that fit on a similar sized battery. If it works for yer, brilliant, of course. But that is really a very basic device.

[Pattio]

From the local paper.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/1 ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[DerGolgo]

[media]http://img.ifcdn.com/videos/b3bdde701c0 ... 6008_1.mp4[/media]

[jae]

Well, I started last night with a friend's "old" Kanger setup. It was actually replaced with a nearly identical unit that's just a bit less scratched up, but figured so long as it functions it will give me a feel for what's going on.

So far I like the setup well enough, and am thinking about getting this same one for myself. Not knowing much about it, it seems to have a lot of the features that I see recommended. If I'm not mistaken, it's basically the Kanger SUBOX Mini starter setup. Currently running it at about 15.0W at 0.5 ohm.

I definitely need to get some different fluid. The stuff they had on hand is 18mg, and as a non-smoker, I can only take about two puffs before I feel a buzz. The local shop has quite a few flavors I'm interested in trying though.

[DerGolgo]

Huzzah!

As far as something to start with, the Kanger Subox is a pretty decent choice if you can get it cheap. Seriously decent, I know people who have been vaping for well over a year and still won't let go of it.
Some of the ladies from my office who vape, they have been at it a while ... when at the vaper's expo, when these could be had at special prices, they'd buy themselves three or four at once. Just to have different colors. No, that is not a joke. It's a very well beloved machine. Score sir, very much score.

[jae]

I feel I got a decent deal on it. Retail is listed on kanger's website right at $83 and I got my kit for $63 shipped. The white was the only color available, which makes me suspect they had their stock on clearance. I don't mind the white though as my friends all have black, and the only other color I've been seeing is a sky blue which appears a little feminine for my particular taste, though I have to admit there's a good chance I'll try to disassemble the mod at some point and paint it.

[jae]

So far, I'm enjoying vaping. I'm definitely enjoying the lower nicotine juices (3mg) I recently got vs the stuff my friend uses that he let me try (18mg).

Went to a local vape bar and tried out a few flavors and settled on a vanilla-almond-tobacco flavor. Pretty mellow, not overly sweet, but definitely reminds me of wedding cake. He hands me the bottle, and it turns out it's Cafe Racer "Lucky 13". I was a bit amused by that. I had also ordered (untested) some Space Jam "Venus" juice, and while I didn't much care for it at first, I'm liking it a bit more as I continue using it. Has a bit of a toasted banana split flavor to me.

So far the Subox kit is working well for me. Only used the tank with the .5 ohm coil so far, but it did come with an RDA as well, so I'm going to look into experimenting with that here before too long. I've been told to use "bacon cotton", but have no idea what that is. Time to do more reading I guess.

[Jaeger]

OK, for the lazy, curious, and cheap, what do the knowledgeable folks say about VaporFI?

They have the "e-cigarettes," which are still trying to be straight cylinders, but I see most of the "serious" folks have little boxes with nozzles. Why?

--Jaeger


EDIT BY ADMIN: Link removed at the request of party being linked to.

[DerGolgo]

I've been told to use "bacon cotton", but have no idea what that is. Time to do more reading I guess.

I have heard about bacon cotton, but I'm not entirely sure what it is, either.
There are about as many "best wick ever!!" materials as there are "best motorcycle tires ever!"
I started my first RTA with the cheap cotton-ish stuff you can buy at the grocery store for cosmetic applications.
Then, I was introduced to Japanese Muji cotton, which was better, in many ways, but far from perfect.
I also tried Rayon, but didn't like it.
THEN I found Fiber Freaks.
It's made specifically for vaping. The "original" is pure cellulose from what I understand, and comes in two densities. Density one, which is supposed to transport the juice better for tank atomizers, and density two, which is better for RDAs, supposedly.
I find density two to work in many RTAs, also, I'd go as far as saying nearly all of them. And I use fairly thick juice, too.
It's flavor-neutral, it doesn't brown or scorch anywhere as much or as quick as anything else I've tried.
The density one, it develops a bit of an aftertaste fairly quickly, it scorches just a little in my builds. But density two is the dog's bollocks, the bee's knees, the elephant's back-hair, horse's wisdom teeth and many other items of zoological anatomy. IN MY TASTE, my opinion. Friend of mine used it for a while, has since changed to some other type of Japanese cotton. I dunno, to each their own.
Note that Fiber Freaks recently introduced cellulose/cotton blends. I have not tried those. Because I'm just so damn happy with the original, density 2.
It's also easy to work with, easy to cut, comes in convenient pads that, unlike Muji-cotton, don't have to be meticulously dissembled to reveal the "good stuff" underneath the top layer.

If you get into RTAs. There are all sorts of coiling jigs everyone swears by, all kinds of tools.
Most of it you can do with household items.
Three things you most definitely need:
- good tweezers. Different shapes and sizes. Metal is fine for a start, but get some ceramic ones so you can squeeze your coils while firing to anneal.
- butane torch of some kind. Mini-blowtorch, creme-brulet-browner torch. For oxidizing/destressing wire.
- a coiling jig. Most recommendable are those of this nature. Most excellent for starters. Just feed in the wire, then twist the top and have a perfect coil come out.



Once you've tried household items, and found them to lack, you'll want:
- flush-cutter wire cutters.
- this kinds of scissors for cutting cotton.

I even use them to trim my beard now. The two blades aren't parallel, they are bent, so they will always actually touch at one point. Perfect cut. Can't beat it.

[DerGolgo]

OK, for the lazy, curious, and cheap, what do the knowledgeable folks say about VaporFI?

They have the "e-cigarettes," which are still trying to be straight cylinders, but I see most of the "serious" folks have little boxes with nozzles. Why?

--Jaeger

The little tube things are from the time when vaping was "like smoking only, you know, not".

little tube:
- not much battery capacity to fit in there. Much recharging/carrying spares required.
- not enough battery power to make nice clouds.
- not enough room for a proper display to tell your battery charge and whatnot.
- awkward to hold.
- doesn't fit your breast-pocket well, rattles around.

boxes:
- the opposite of all of the above, and:
- can hold complex electronics that will measure atomizer resistance, show battery charge, adjust power output to an adjustable wattage, temperature control even.
- batteries that can be changed out quickly.
- will fit any number of atomizers (the "little nozzles"), depending on taste and mood and whatnot.

The box thingies also come as tubes, "scepters", which are popular over here, too. I don't quite see the point. But if you fancy sucking a light saber, hey, whatever floats your whatnot.
I've seen 1.5" diameter scepters, 1'6" long, that had to be carried in a special shoulder-holster thingy. The homoerotic implications boggle the mind ...

Thus far, I've only spoken of "regulated" mods, with variable wattage/variable voltage.
There are also "mechanical mods".
I like making big clouds and fettling and improvising my own crap, like my magnetic stirrer. But that mech-mod mania is just weird.
A little voltmeter or a mosfet-driven firing circuit will be the most sophisticated electronics therein.
In many cases, the firing button just pushes two strips of copper together.
Those are for the use of people ... not like goose, no. Not people who endlessly fix broken and ungrateful bikes.
More like ... I dunno. Someone who will spend ten hours getting things just so, for an hour of fun.
Will debate, for hours, the pros and cons of mosfest-driven firing circuits vs. just squeezing a pair of copper strips together. People who take the craft of building coils and turn it into merciless science. But they need the artist's touch, also. And while people like I will collect atties and use only a few mods, I've seen many collect mods like some humans collect shoes, only to combine them with ever the same atties.

These are not the only people, but the ones most likely, to build coils such as this:





They mainline the kool-aid. I have not the talent, not the time, nor the desire to build things like that.

EDIT BY ADMIN: Link removed at the request of party being linked to.

[jae]

here's the cotton bacon stuff:
http://wicknvape.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...and WOW, those are some impressive coils to look at. No desire to get anywhere near that level of commitment right now, the out-of-the-box Kanger setup is keeping me happy.

[DerGolgo]

The description sounds good. And like I said, I've heard about it, enough people seem to be happy with it.
I would give it a go, but I'm stocked up on Fiber Freaks Density 2 for a few months to come, so, probably not soon.

[Jaeger]

Good gods. OK, that mostly confirms what I'd guessed, though I hadn't anticipated that much artistry or neuroses in terms of the execution.

I'm a nicotine addict. I'm lazy. I'm cheap. I need something that I can keep here on my desk, so size is irrelevant, nor do I especially care what it looks like. I just want my NIIICOTIIIIIINEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

I want the Glock of vape gizmos, if that analogy makes sense. Functional, reliable, efficient. No muss, no fuss.

—Jaeger

[DerGolgo]

Good gods. OK, that mostly confirms what I'd guessed, though I hadn't anticipated that much artistry or neuroses in terms of the execution.

I'm a nicotine addict. I'm lazy. I'm cheap. I need something that I can keep here on my desk, so size is irrelevant, nor do I especially care what it looks like. I just want my NIIICOTIIIIIINEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

I want the Glock of vape gizmos, if that analogy makes sense. Functional, reliable, efficient. No muss, no fuss.

—Jaeger

... ah, a challenge!
I shall consult my vaping cronies!

[wyckedsin]

Good gods. OK, that mostly confirms what I'd guessed, though I hadn't anticipated that much artistry or neuroses in terms of the execution.

I'm a nicotine addict. I'm lazy. I'm cheap. I need something that I can keep here on my desk, so size is irrelevant, nor do I especially care what it looks like. I just want my NIIICOTIIIIIINEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

I want the Glock of vape gizmos, if that analogy makes sense. Functional, reliable, efficient. No muss, no fuss.

—Jaeger

... ah, a challenge!
I shall consult my vaping cronies!

Kanger Subbox and SubTank...at least in my experience...

As for cotton: My son is a big fan of the Bacon Cotton, but "I" have not noticed a difference in performance or longevity over the Koga Japanese Cotton I use. I have noticed however, that for the price locally, I get more cotton in the envelope of Bacon Cotton over what I get from the Koga I buy. The Koga is what was available when I was at the shop.

[DerGolgo]

Kanger Subbox and SubTank...at least in my experience...

Indeed, those are exceptionally popular, probably for good reason.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CntmosKGWtM[/media]

First suggestions have come in from my vaping cronies via FB.
The "Evic VT" is a device I see often in many hands, those who use it seem to like it a lot.
Battery cannot be changed out, which I find is a point against it, but it'll charge happily via USB and delivers a good amount of vapor, adjustable and all. Temperature control, too, which makes life easier for the beginner, no question. But it only works with titanium or nickel coils, and the jury is out on the health effects of those two. Titanium in a pre-made coil-head should probably be fine, though, the concern there is about tri-valent titanium oxides that might (or might not) be created during annealing. Which you don't do with those ready-made coil-heads, the titanium there should be quite oxide free. Temperature control would prevent accidental hijinks.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krCNOlf-Bx0[/media]

This one, with a low-ohm coil-head, will require a not-so-weak mod:
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjG-mS-QHN0[/media]

DOWNSIDE on all of these:
While they are all made to run with pre-fab coil-heads/cartridges, they can only be refilled from the bottom. Which means unscrewing them.
Not convenient.

There are devices that can be filled from the top:
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grLxgJYWWws[/media]
The TFV4 is popular, too:
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWjzxoXPs_U[/media]
Those WILL need a powerful mod.
I always recommend those with batteries that can be changed out, but you'd have to deal with a battery charger, usually.
I'll wait and see what other recommendations come in.

[jae]

The Kanger Subox Mini kit is what I started with, been using it about a week. It's about as simple as I can see a setup getting. Put juice in the tank, screw it together, and with a charged battery you're good to go for a couple of days to a week (obviously depending on your consumption level). Plus, it doesn't seem difficult to find them right around $60, but be advised that you will need to buy your battery separately.

fasttech.com seems to have the best prices I've seen, both on kits and replacement coils, but it looks like shipping times (to the states at least) can be pretty long.
Kanger Subox kit for ~$52 https://www.fasttech.com/products/3024/10014058/2385501" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
little more expensive at my freedom smokes, but they also offer 10% discount when you get on their mailing list ~$60 https://www.myfreedomsmokes.com/kangert ... i-kit.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm interested in figuring out the RDA that came with the kit so I can more easily try out a bunch of different juices, though the local shop I went to recently just kept the juices in separate tanks and had disposable tip covers on-hand. On the hunt for a good coffee flavor at the moment.

[DerGolgo]

Fasttech has a huge selection and low, low prices. But a lot is cheap clones, and I mean badly-made-cheap, it can take weeks before they ship and THEN another month to deliver and, most worse: when that long delivery time has passed, and the parcel got lost, or the stuff they sent isn't like it's supposed to be, their customer service can generously be described as "sluggish" and "unenthusiastic". I speak from personal experience. Parcel got lost in transit. It had taken three weeks for them to ship to begin with, not counting the ten day delay because I had placed my order right before Chinese new year. Another two or three weeks for it to reach Jerryland before DHL managed to misplace it at customs. Had to wait for it to maybe show up after all. Then I had to convince them to lodge a complaint with their postal carrier, it took another sixty days until they announced it could not be found. After placing my order in early February, it was late June before they agreed to refund. To store credit, since I had paid by credit card. For some evil reason, they don't accept paypal for all items. So all I could do was to order something from them yet again. I invested a chunk of that store credit in express shipping, though. Don't use EMS shipping, it's also a ripoff. They claim to work with the postal service but, instead, handed my package to another private courier service who, essentially, held it hostage. Either I pay them or they hand it to local customs ... in a town hundreds of miles away from me, which would have involved a whole new rigmarole to get at it.
I do not recommend fasttech. Or EMS in general.
Check focalecig.com, they even have a selection of stuff they ship right from the US. They are fairly quick, reliable, their after-sales care is ACE. I've ordered from them a few times. There, too, a package got lost. DHL had claimed delivery to my neighbor, Mr. Letterbox. He didn't have any package. Less than a week, a new shipment was on the way, no worries.
Not quite as low prices as fasttech, not quite as large a selection. But still quite cheap and a quite large selection. Worth the markup.

[jae]

So another question I probably should've asked before ordering anything...

The juice I got locally is 70% VG/30% PG, but noticed looking online (specifically at http://www.heathersheavenlyvapes.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, their coffee flavor was recommended to me) that you can get just about any blend (in 10% increments) from 20% up to 100% VG. So, what's the difference, and why would one prefer any particular ratio?

[DerGolgo]

... just about any blend (in 10% increments) from 20% up to 100% VG. So, what's the difference, and why would one prefer any particular ratio?

You know how there are many different sorts of bikes?
Same with e-juice.

PG:
- lower viscosity, better suited for very small atties (like old-school clearomizers and suchlike)
- more intense flavor, but not just more intense, it brings a certain harshness, I find.

VG:
- MUCH more viscous.
- needs more aromas added to it to bring out the flavor, but that flavor is fuller, mellower
- BIGGER CLOUDS!
- also a denser, fuller vape than PG

Why prefer VG over PG:
- some people have a glucose intolerance. Propylene glycol is a chemical relative of glucose, it can create less-than-comfortable reactions.
- like I said, mellower flavor.
- BIGGER CLOUDS!
- the dense, full, hearty vape. The sort of vape that should come with a handlebar mustache, in a dusty, antique glass bottle, with the general motif of old leather and imperialism.

BUT:
PG and VG have legitimately different actions. PG will "hit" ya in your throat, that's where you feel it. VG, meanwhile, will oomph ya in the chest. Some prefer one, some prefer the other.
However, really really small devices, like little clearomizers, the things that are the size of a pen and whatnot, they don't really deliver nearly enough vapor to fill even a part of your lungs. So, a throat hit is what you get by using as much as 50% PG.
In my experience, PG is what you use to dillute VG.

If you use an RDA, you ideally want pure VG. Or only very little PG. Perhaps no PG, but dilute the VG with a little distilled water ("Velvet" style juices).
PG has a lower boiling point than VG, so in an RDA, where there is no big chimney or nothing, it will vaporize and fire droplets of liquid VG and re-condensed PG into your mouth. It'll "spit" we call it over here. No fun.

I have used a variety of RTAs with pure VG. Unfortunately, the flow IS hampered often enough to give you regular dry-hits or just scorch-out your wick in a hurry from recurring overheating.
I mix my own and, currently, I use 80% VG, the rest being PG and the aromas. There are different concentrations of aroma required, in my usage it ranges from 6% to 12%. But since those are pretty thin, even slightly volatile substances, it works out to replace the PG.
I'd still prefer pure VG (well, n % Aromas and [100-n % VG]), I may work my way up there once again.

If you get an RDA, you definitely need high VG juice. I found 75% VG to be a little spitty, still. It's why I decided to dare and go back up to 80%, which works well, I find.